FORUMS


Tac Cruisers Need A Nerf



Posted: //
Dec. 24, 2017, 6:58 p.m.



Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-202657) said:

Tacts can only heal so much, the thing is tacts rely on team to have a brain to actually do something. Trust me, I'm a tact that can eat 2 missiles salvo and 2 arties howling at me and still live, but I cannot do anything if my team doesn't even look around.

There is only the OB Adrenaline shot proves a problem because it gives a lot of energy, all other things are pretty average.

If you want to kill tacts you need at least 2 people, 1 disable and 1 nuke. Just like tacts need at least 2 people to heal. What you are asking is how to kill someone 1v2, it's not gonna happen

Ok I'll answer bits by bits. "Tacts can only heal so much, the thing is tacts rely on team to have a brain to actually do something." =>Tacs' healing post-nerf is fine imo, wasn't complaining about that.

"Trust me, I'm a tact that can eat 2 missiles salvo and 2 arties howling at me and still live" =>aaand that should never happen, that's my point. When badly positionned, you should die for it.

"but I cannot do anything if my team doesn't even look around." => Except healing them while being able to survive 3 ships focusing you. Oh wait...that's everything tacs' do actually.

"There is only the OB Adrenaline shot proves a problem because it gives a lot of energy, all other things are pretty average." =>Agreed, and tac's modules aren't my problem either.

"If you want to kill tacts you need at least 2 people, 1 disable and 1 nuke." =>So you need 2 coordinated ships with specific modules to kill 1 tac cruiser. Seems fair...What if there are 2 of them ?

"Just like tacts need at least 2 people to heal. What you are asking is how to kill someone 1v2, it's not gonna happen" =>That doesn't even compares, you need 0 coordination to heal another ship. It's not about 1v2s, its about tacs surviving under heavy fire, and you can't only blame the briefing.

Too bad that your opinion is so obviously biased, I wonder if you play something else than tacs.


TL;DR: delete tac cruisers.


Posted: //
Dec. 24, 2017, 9:33 p.m.



Vasiliy#2624 posted (#post-202658) said:

"Trust me, I'm a tact that can eat 2 missiles salvo and 2 arties howling at me and still live" =>aaand that should never happen, that's my point. When badly positionned, you should die for it.

Why not, it's not like I run out in the open to die, I purposely take the hit so that the shield damage reduce my cool down and my mate can take less damage (which lessen the healing pressure on me). I do it because I know I can survive, and I do it because I gear myself to do it. I have my own sacrifice to do that as well.

Vasiliy#2624 posted (#post-202658) said:

"but I cannot do anything if my team doesn't even look around." => Except healing them while being able to survive 3 ships focusing you. Oh wait...that's everything tacs' do actually.

Who's the big target when your team is in the open? Yep, tacts, positioning is a must as tact's healing get dramatically lesser with range (1k4 autobeam, 800 pod, and main koschei beam 1k2)

Vasiliy#2624 posted (#post-202658) said:

"Just like tacts need at least 2 people to heal. What you are asking is how to kill someone 1v2, it's not gonna happen" =>That doesn't even compares, you need 0 coordination to heal another ship. It's not about 1v2s, its about tacs surviving under heavy fire, and you can't only blame the briefing.

Too bad that your opinion is so obviously biased, I wonder if you play something else than tacs.

Hmm, my current fleet don't even include a tacts, I maxed Aion very quickly as it was my first ship, but now I have all the T4s already, you can imagine how long I didn't touch tacts.

If you think healing is that easy (I admit that it need only LM then you should have seen matches where people screaming for repair.

And about coordination, yes that is a problem, it goes both way, just a bit less on the healing side. I literally had games where I jump in on a Jutland, kill both tacts on opposing team, then warp back to my team to heal, because opposing shooters are tunnel-visioned into shooting my other team mates they don't protect their tacts.

Now there's something I would agree with: that's tacts are very annoying. But it is necessary to have tacts so that people can coordinate and devise certain strategy. Without tacts everyone would just go and head bang each other


"I am the law, I am the justice!" - Captain Nemo https://puu.sh/xsWjl/cee5668700.jpg


Posted: //
Dec. 24, 2017, 10:04 p.m.



Ah, goodie... another "I can't SOLO TWO other players in a team game" post. We were running late on the next installment of the "halp, they're making me play together with other people" saga.

Anyone who thinks that a tac alone can keep anyone (including, but not limited, another tac) alive by itself, sorry, doesn't even know what they're talking about. Play the game some more. And try actually playing a tac before having opininons on what they can or can't do. You know, see what you can keep alive and what can take you out, instead of making up stuff.

The fact is, according to the datamine, even a tier 5 Feronia puts out 660 hp/s when they're point blank next to their target. With energy to weapons, that's 1755 hp/s. And you don't even need a t5 to out-dps that. A tier 3 Otranto does 1856 dps at the same range, WITHOUT energy to weapons, which the healer will eventually run out of. A tier 4 Blud, which can actually play against the Feronia, does 2433 dps, again without even throwing in energy to weapons. With energy to weapons it's over 4000 dps, or almost twice and a half what the Feronia can actually heal.

Ah, but you may say, but the healer can throw in amplify beams, a healing pod, and auto-beams! Yeah, well, and the destroyer can throw in energy to weapons, weapon amplifier, and weaponbooster pulse. The last one boosts nearby teammates too. You know, it being a TEAM game. And throw in storm missiles and flechettes too, for good measure. Or take the module reset instead of weapon amplifier, and throw a SECOND helping of storm missiles.

The thing is, anyone being kept alive by a healer, is actually doing their part to mitigate damage on their part too. So again, what you're actually seeing is TWO players using BOTH sets of abilities to complement each other.

And anyone whining that they can't overcome that ALONE, well, can cry me a river. If the game balance allowed any one class to pwn two players playing as a team, THAT would be broken.


Posted: //
Dec. 25, 2017, 5:39 p.m.


Updated //
Dec. 25, 2017, 5:49 p.m.

Wrong. A T3 Ceres heals 640 HPS at point blank range so how could a T5 heals 660 HPS at the same range. Actual value is 960 HPS according to the (same?) datamine.


TL;DR: delete tac cruisers.


Posted: //
Dec. 25, 2017, 5:45 p.m.


Updated //
Dec. 25, 2017, 5:51 p.m.

Idea: just make every tac cruiser like the JA one, no healing, buff pulses, energy missiles, drain drones, etc...and more damage so they have an actual reason to leave cover. Basically turn them into supportive fighters rather than just healers. More fun for everyone, even tac players. What do you think about it ?


TL;DR: delete tac cruisers.


Posted: //
Dec. 26, 2017, 12:03 a.m.



I spend a lot of time hiding with my tacs because I can't see the battle while healing, the game forces you to tunnel vision to keep people alive. Healing in this game is too instantaneous, which prevents someone from exploiting a good flank attack. In most games with healing there is a spell casting time, 2-3 seconds, which with good players is enough of a lag to finish off targets that are close to death.

Possible solutions would be to make the heal function of the main beams be a variant of beam amplifier. The base beam only does damage, but module lets it heal for say 10 seconds very strongly. Another solution would be to add heal missiles to replace autobeams such that there is a delay in heals to a friendly, and a good healer will see the attacks coming and launch the heal missiles early.


Posted: //
Dec. 26, 2017, 8:16 a.m.



Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-203011) said:

You can try play the Palos/Harwich in a game without healers then think about it

Thought about it, makes 0 sense. Everyone would agree that healballs are dumb and have few weaknesses, so I'm suggesting a fix. You said you almost never play tac, me neither. Why, because they are unfun to play as or against. Plus it would be make sense to have buff pulses on tacs (hence the name tactical, doesn't fit at all right now) rather than on destroyer/dreadnoughts. Games have to improve, get over it.


TL;DR: delete tac cruisers.


Posted: //
Dec. 26, 2017, 11:59 p.m.



But with healin nerf should come hp buff. People say that game is slow but ships even largest can melt in seconds.


Posted: //
Dec. 28, 2017, 2:10 a.m.



Vasiliy#2624 posted (#post-203149) said:

Thought about it, makes 0 sense. Everyone would agree that healballs are dumb and have few weaknesses, so I'm suggesting a fix. You said you almost never play tac, me neither. Why, because they are unfun to play as or against. Plus it would be make sense to have buff pulses on tacs (hence the name tactical, doesn't fit at all right now) rather than on destroyer/dreadnoughts. Games have to improve, get over it.

Couple of things I want to share on why healing tacts are more popular than actual "tactical" tact, despite the fact that tacts do have tactical modules (such as cloak pulse, cool down pulse, drones or pods)

  • Support pulses give you ZERO score. That's right, 0 score
  • Drones give you ZERO score, yep
  • Purge beam, strongest module in the game, give you next to 0 score as well, sometimes it gives you an assist.
  • Offensive modules are super short range: tesla pod 1400, tesla turret 800, mine 680, blast pulse 900. Why get close to < 1000 range when you can heal from 5000 away?
  • Tacts are relatively slow (except certain Aion build), and don't have enough HP to duke it out at close range

Given those, going healing is a logical choice, not dumb choice. Until offensive modules on tacts are buffed, not matter how much you nerf healing, playing healing tacts is better.


"I am the law, I am the justice!" - Captain Nemo https://puu.sh/xsWjl/cee5668700.jpg


Posted: //
Dec. 28, 2017, 3:06 a.m.



You can get points for some support modules if someone affected by them make a kill . But I am not sure about tacs . For sure you get some points when using armorbooster and weaponbooster pulses

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