FORUMS


PATCH 1.3.1: THE SHIPYARD UPDATE - Megathread



Posted: //
Nov. 1, 2016, 7:40 p.m.


Updated //
Nov. 1, 2016, 7:41 p.m.

Falkenherz#5337 posted (#post-51655)

Also while I don´t mind playing higher tier players in general, with them having a broader choice of ships and modules, I feel quite annoyed when they win just because their module of the same type does more damage or activates twice as often. This is unfair and has nothing to do with skill anymore. I know, old school games had a level-up system, but I don´t think anybody wants to go back in time for this.


Welcome to the world of every newcomer to this game ever meeting a long time player in a pimped out talionis or an ABW vette.


Posted: //
Nov. 1, 2016, 7:42 p.m.


Updated //
Nov. 1, 2016, 8:14 p.m.

Mind you, I understand we're beta testers for a reason and my burning anger at playing an awesome game for a week then having it ripped away and replaced with world of dreadnought 2.0 steps backwards has not abated. That all said here is my constructive feedback.

Pros:
-more ships and more modules. can't complain here it's awesome
-multiplying the range by 10. 70km engagement is still stupid short for space ships. but it feels better then 7, which was just pathetic
-more modules, especially the ones like fighters that emphasize the size of these vessels.
-larger teams. I like the options It feels quite different from LoL and that is always a good thing.
-healers are more powerful at start. I have to say this is the biggest improvement in my opinion. starting with beam amp/auto beams rather then offensive modules get's people into healing which is important since support classes are usually maligned as unrewarding in most games. People learn early on that they're weak, then people get trashed when the team loses, so they stop playing and thus only a few progress to the later ranks where the supports are on par and teams are suddenly desperate for good ones.

Cons:
-Tier system. It's been tried, it's unpopular, it's grindy and drives players away. Kill it. You guys are smart enough to build a better system.

-Maintenance.
I should think that as game designers building in a mechanic that forces players not to play would be a stupid move let me make it clear.
-forcing more experienced players into noob brackets because their average income can't sustain constant play DRIVES NEW PLAYERS AWAY (and kills your game)
-building in reasons to stop playing/take a break DRIVES PLAYERS AWAY IN GENERAL (and kills your game)
-if I have an hour to play after work I should be allowed to play that full hour, I've bought a founders pack, I've supported your game I shouldn't have to wait in a repair bay. Honestly, when I see stuff like this i'm immediately drawn to the next game in my steam que that isn't going to impose some arbitrary, poorly thought out mechanic on me. I'm a soldier, I work longer, harder days them most people and when I choose to play a game in the time I have between work and family I desire to spend that full time engaged, not sitting in an artificial loading menu.

--Edit to address something brought up in the post below.
Maintenance does not actually prevent you from playing. however, at the legendary tier average income, from greybox's own estimates and backed (so far) by personal experience/observation cannon sustain constant legendary tier play except by the best players. thus, legendary players are required to drop to lower brackets and noob stomp in order to sustain legendary play. furthermore, this effectively prevents them from playing that tier what I called 'an artificial loading menu, or waiting in the repair bay'.
--Edit ends here


-Xp + cash -> 'free xp' coverter
words cannot describe the fiery burning hatred in my soul for this system. It's low, lower then dirt low. It's the slap in the face after the soul-sucking initial grind that shouldn't be here. I understand this is a business and needs to make money. There are other ways to make money without shooting the player base's faith in the head.

-no secondary weapons at Tier 1. It's stupid, I want them back, especially for ships like tacs and arty cruisers that needed those close-in weapons.

-no officer briefs at Tier 1. It's stupid, at the very least give new players 4-8 to play with so they get used to them

-playing ships that have nothing to do with the ships they unlock.
-all the ships of a given type should be in a line and the exp you earn (if you insist on this stupid tier system) should be immediately applicable to the next ship. This way players feel like they have an ever increasing wave of momentum. Every game builds towards their final goal, nothing feels wasted, and they can spend time honing the play-style the love. Instead what we have now is a system of constant depressing restarts where you build up to the top only to be busted straight down to the bottom every time you hit a new ship (and where old ships are constantly being tossed out never to be played again). On top of that you have to hone other skills and other ships simply to play the ones you actually want. There's plenty you can do with linear progression since the main tree can have branches to ships that fit different niches that way you have a main line of successive upgrades and side branches of equally powerful/viable ships that are meant to coexist in battle because they do different things or do the same thing in different ways. furthermore, this means that the ships you make are never obsolete, which frankly wastes less of your time as designers.

-'strength' bars. convert all the shiny bars for speed/armor/firepower, etc in to numbers. They're misleading in the current form

-no dreadnoughts/corvettes at start
-this is a HUGE mistake because it means new players are thrown into lobbies without tanks and without assassins. they already have a lower base skill level and less modules on the ships they have, denying them entire integral classes of ships only helps widen the gap between them and a dude that's played a week longer. case in point: when I started playing a week before 2.0 I opened with a 4 game win streak because I was able swap into any roll my team needed
contrast this with my first 4 games in 2.0 which was 3 losses and 1 win because my team had no counters to the enemy sniper fest all we could hope to do was 'snipe better'. Even though I did well individually it didn't matter because 'try harder' isn't a strategy, especially for a new player.

-less avatar options at start.
-I have to say this is just a low blow. the options were already so limited I could count them on one hand I would have liked to see them expanded and some premium ones added. Also, again, i'm a solder I want head gear for my uniform.


-Citizen Soldier -"Do not bring forth an argument that can be disproved with a 10 minute google search."


Posted: //
Nov. 1, 2016, 7:54 p.m.



@Lincrono

First off I want to agree with 99% of what you've said above.

I also dislike this maintenance thing as just another tax on a losing player.

That being said, I believe you have some.. incorrect if not misleading information.

When you lose a match, you still make credits.. My team just got steamrolled and I still got ~400 credits...

My maintenance cost was 299.. and it appeared to be instant... No time lost, no waiting to que the next game.

Their wording for maintenance is very weird.. you get a dialogue to 'skip' maintenance and a fee cost associated with it... when it should just be 'You lost, here is the fee, pay it to unlock this fleet for action again' (obviously with prettier words)

All that being said, I still MADE credits losing.. it was a pathetic amount (and I think the top 3 on the losing team should be exempt from maintenance fee, not the top 3 including the winning team. That's just dumb.)

So these posts (You're far from the only one) stating the maintenance is somehow stopping them from playing.. is incorrect.

NOW...

Once we get to legendary stuff, T4-T5 bracket, obviously the maintenance costs will be much more prohibitive... and your statements (if the player goes broke), will be much more accurate/true... but at the same time, if you're up in the legendary bracket with an unlocked T4/T5 ship.. you probably have some credits to burn.

The thing that weirds me out is that there is no monetization on this end of it... eg; Pay credits OR pay GP

Yet there IS monetization on that damned ship xp-->free xp converter (which I REALLY hate and disagree with.. it's effectively saying YOU, the PLAYER, can't have fun on the ship you want without paying us extra money to progress.)

All in all, love your post.


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 12:37 a.m.



So I dropped back in for the patch, I pretty much put DN on the back burner since I knew it was coming and knew I had to start over again. So having a new progression system seemed oke to me since I burned to level 50 pretty quickly at the time. Granted I had the time back then and I don't really at this point.

However this new progression. Well it should keep me busy for quite a bit if it were not for some things that are really turning me off.

My goto ship was the heavy destroyer it suited my play style and it was the ship I would turn to if the team needed raw dps. So naturally the first order of business is to reacquire it, but to my amazement I need to get and fully research 3 snipers. But, but I never really was a sniper man, I did like to play the class from time to time but now I can't get around it. Not to mention in some matches snipers are really not that needed or are being actively hunted so its wiser to switch. And there is the second problem. This system forces me to play a specific ship because I need to use it in order to get where I want to be. But not just me everybody that has a goal in mind knows this and in a team game where it sometimes requires people to switch to a ship that suits the situation they now keep the ship that is not needed so they can progress. I, I cant even say how bad this is for a game that should be promoting team work.

Offcourse all this requires XP and Credits, which seems to go up exponentially the further you get in. Just quickly reading the other posts and seeing the amounts, they really seem off but I will be honest I am not at that point myself yet to have a valid opinion. But as a F2P game having a system in play that requires people to be busy acquiring their ships and modules over a longer period of time is something that is needed.

But the thing that really got to me was seeing 5 T4 ships against me in a team full of T1 ships. What is this, was this suppose NOT to happen and protect the lower players. I have my hero ships aswell but they are useless for the progression UNLESS I start throwing money around. But to make matters worse, I can't even switch to T4 ships because I queued for a recruit fleet. So for now I will assume this is either a bug or something done for the beta. But get rid of this since this is horrible.

The way I see it no matter what ship you play you should be able to use the XP you earn everywhere. Not just that one ship but that would kinda put a dent in your idea of monetizing dreadnought. So I understand what you want to accomplish but I really have doubts how this would turn out. I suppose that every ship that is fully researched would still make xp like every ship you own right now does aswell. So at some point it will start to accumulate and that is what people can convert into extra xp for cash. That way people might not feel so restricted in what they are playing and there is still that way to progress faster. Since having more ships means more xp to convert. People who want to get ahead of the curve and don't mind paying for it will probably max out more lower tier ships to get the extra xp. But then again at that point people might start throwing pay to win in your face all though they could probably do that at this point anyway.


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 12:55 a.m.



I have to keep an open view point on the aspect of this transition if I am going to have to review this game to my spheres of influence.

This means I will be giving this game a complete shake down as if I have never played this game before. So I'm starting from playing the training missions first and will play in it for awhile before attempting to go up in levels.

I will say that I am rather rusty (which in a way a good thing if you are starting over) as I left the previous rendition of this game at level 30 due to the fact of...

  1. The broken match making system. Enough said.

  2. The broken progression system where it became seal clubbing 101. I got sick and tired of "Corvette Naught" and the predatory aspect of some of the players in this game.

  3. The limited amount of actual customization that made sense. Some of you in this posting here about the lack of customization in 2.0. I can not comment on if this true so far as of my comments above.

But I can say that in 1.3 that even though there was dozens of possibilities of customization for your vessel in actuality there were only 1 or 2 combos per ship that actually worked.

This made the game very flat and boring since everyone had the same damned thing going into game in regards on what type of ship they are playing. There was only 1 or 2 combinations of briefings, modules, and weapons per ship that made sense and the rest of the modules, weapons, briefings, etc, was just useless pixilware that nobody used because it was nonviable in game play.

Just Wiki what you needed and you were good as gold depending what level you are. That is about as flat as you can get.

1.3 was dead on arrival that the DEV's knew it and that is why they made the change.

But that does not mean that they are going to get a "get out of jail" card from myself. I will play test this game and will find the flaws (if there is some) as well as what is good about the game in general.


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 6:58 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 2, 2016, 6:59 a.m.

Absolutely loved the game before the latest patch. Every ship felt unique ad different , every ship had its own special play-style and there was quite abit of tactics and skill that went into winning a game.
One of my favorite aspects was that every ship was a side grade not an upgrade, this would mean that in the long run when the game has been out for awhile and there are 100+ ships ,you would be able to jump into a game and chances are from game to game you would never see the same ship twice xD.

After this latest patch i really see no reason to play the game anymore, its gone from being an amazing game that i absolutely adored to just another grind fest.

Cons of current patch:

  1. Tiers. Cant really understand why they where added. I would much rather prefer a game balanced around individual skill than tiers.

  2. 8v8. Previously in the 5v5 game mode i felt as thought the game had far more emphasis on team-play and individual skill than in the current 8v8. With 8v8, flanking and outmaneuvering an opponent is pretty much useless, as even if you do manage to get in a great spot to take out the enemy healers it doesn't really matter as the enemy team is so tightly grouped up they simply open fire on you and at best you go 1 for 1... 8v8 has turned the game from being about outsmarting your opponents and playing as a team to simply being about moving around the map as a horde and hoping your horde is more lucky than their horde (gameplay has really become quite mind-numbingly boring). 5v5 needs to make a return, and 8v8 should be relegated to objective based game modes like battlefields conquest).

  3. Progression was far better before the update. The leveling system had a few problems such as some modules being more powerful than others but as it stands it was better than the current system. In the previous system i actually cared about my ship ,every-time i unlocked a new module i was exited to see what it did and figure out how to use it effectively. Now its just bland, you get access to almost no modules, only a small portion of the ships and have to grind your way to maybe one day playing a ship that looks like it may be interesting or have all its modules intact.

*I apologized for the rant. But i absolutely loved playing this game for a week or so. And now that cool game i played is gone and im sad. >.<


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 7:17 a.m.



Seems like a good place to leave a feedback.

Pros:
- more ships;
- more players in match;
- bunch of new modules, or i may be mistaken.

Cons:
- worse performance - having less fps on low settings, with the quite common drops to like 10fps, especiialy on explosions and other effects;
- MM issues - but that probably due to low players count;
- tier system - aside from the fact, that it's too common on session-based games, it's too grinding. Better option seems to use maybe the system, where palyers start at middle of available ship line, and if they want, they can move to either more speed and less resilience, or vice versa, with reworked module system - with different numbers of active/passive modules. Also the set of starting ships is a little bit strange.
- no secondaries on low tiers is pretty bad, especially when on tier II new ship types appear.
- no new maps.


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 10:22 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 2, 2016, 10:44 a.m.

My views so far

General
  • Fleet Maintenance. Either reduce it or remove it completely.
  • Separate audio sliders. Seriously, how was this not part of this update? It's only been a few months now...
  • Match history. I would love to be able to look at my past 5-10 games to see my KDA, score, ribbons, credit income, exp(s) gain, and fleet maintenance.
In-Game
  • Ship tier in scoreboard. Being able to quickly see what tier your allies and enemies are playing as could be pretty important for players beyond Tier 1 & 2.
UI Changes & Additions
  • Button for previous ship. While looking at a ships research tree, you should be able to quickly navigate to the previous ship much like how you can currently navigate to a higher tier ship.
  • Currency and Experience readability. Credits and Exp costs are the same font, size, and color, which makes for poor readability. Change color of Credits (i suggest the same turquoise as the credit currency box at the top of the screen).
  • Display all costs for a ship/module. While looking at the Tech-trees players should easily see what things cost and how much they cost Quick example.
  • Missing margin. As you scroll to the bottom of the tech-tree page it looks like the bottom margin is missing, tricking your mind into thinking there is more that the page isn't displaying.
Progression System
  • Re-balance EXP and Credit rewards. Right now a single win grants enough to research all module upgrades and the Tier 2 ship, but only buy two modules. Now you're stuck having to play another couple games to get the credits to buy the rest.
  • Progress directly to different ships. Rather than having the Tier 1 ship unlock one of the Tier 2 ships, which in turn unlocks the new line of ships (like the Nav, Furia, Dover), I suggest that the T1 ship should unlock both. It is VERY frustrating having to play Artillery Cruisers, despite sucking at them, just because i wanted to unlock the Medium Dreadnought line.

My spaceship brings all the boys to the yard

Carrier-Class Ideas 1.6 | Module Ideas 1.1
T-Shirt Designs | Ship specific Voice-Packs


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 10:40 a.m.



DarkDonutz#4229 posted [(#post-51640)]
so whats the check you get like?i mean i could use a job.

Excuse me but i cant understand what u mean.


"The First Of His Name"


Posted: //
Nov. 2, 2016, 10:43 a.m.



Feedback:

Pros:
1) New ships - Personally I like progression
2) Tiers - This was a much needed feature to balance the game between newbies and veterans. Don't let old players sway you on this. Corvettes with crazy modules absolutely wrecked new players. Those same ships became liabilities in higher lvl games.

Cons:
1) Maintenance system - This is just a tax on loosing. Apply it equally or scrap it
2) 8v8 - This could potentially be made workable, but the game and the maps are not designed for the increased amount of players

Deal Breakers:
1) 3 man squad limits - If you don't want people with more than 2 friends to play this game, by all means keep this
2) Required class cross play to level up - This is just awful. Someone wanting to play a light dreadnought has to go through two healers and two snipers. Those classes don't even deliver the same kind of game experience. I can not understate how awful this is. Making the ship trees by manufacturer was cute, but if you want people to actually want to progress, you 100% need trees that make sense by class. It should be M.Destroyer (I) > M.Destroyer (II) > M.Destroyer (III) > L.Dreadnought (III)

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