FORUMS


The grind, gating the full experience, and humane/sensible player retention



Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 7:15 a.m.



Snib#1627 posted (#post-217257) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-217142) said:

I don't buy elite [...] I've managed quite well with out elite.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-217255) said:

I find the "grind" with elite very good.

So which one is it?

What's so hard to understand? I do well with out elite and don't find it a problem, with elite I find it better.

@Enterprise. Even If they reduced the grind the "bad" players would still have it bad as the "good" players would progress even faster.


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 7:34 a.m.



Is there something that matches Players with similar skill? How about adding this to dreadnought? No SOS lvl 50 Terminators bashing lvl 36 tier 3's.

The grind has to be improved. No matter if I score 1k or 800 in a match, Without BB or elite it is not possible receiving 3k of xp or more, and this is inacceptable. I made suggestions like an auto buy BB or higher rewards. I do not care how, but it cannot stay like this.

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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 7:57 a.m.


Updated //
April 10, 2018, 7:58 a.m.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-217258) said:

@Enterprise. Even If they reduced the grind the "bad" players would still have it bad as the "good" players would progress even faster.

That's so nonsensical I don't even know what to respond to that. First of all, rewards aren't based on good or bad, they're based on a flawed scoring system and, of course, the tiers. You can be the best player in the world, that t4 dread + tac squad will still outscore your stock t3 if they have just half a clue. Getting shot at and healing are just too easy to score with. And even if progression was solely about performance, no need to punish the worse performing players on top of that by slowing their progression to a crawl if you want them to stick around.

That aside, if you regularly top the scoreboards then your grind is about credits, not XP, anyway, because credit rewards are only partially performance based. I could claim several ships if I had the credits for them.


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 8:05 a.m.



You are not alone in asking for a skill based MMR. I too have asked for it. Some people think the player base is too small for it, as in the top players will just be fighting each other. This also has the problem of everyone having to start with a base line number and people will have to win and lose a lot of matches before they "find" there level.

This also has the effect of boosting some people in to the wrong MMR, and while they might ride high for awhile they will drop like a stone at some point and this will result in people complaining that the MM has changed. This will always be a problem as good players will be dragged down too, but they will also boost people on there way back up.

This would happen every time there was an influx of new players.

It happens in Guild Wars 2 every PvP season. I always get placed T3 gold/T1 plat by the end of it I'm normally T2/T3 gold.


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 8:08 a.m.



The hard cap is credits, XP can go up alot . the highest XP i got out of a veteran match (with BB without elite) was around 16k. Average(for me) is between 6-10k XP

So it definetly is possible and lots of players archieve that

Credits on the other hand are really hard to increase so (with BB without elite) 3,5k Credits is the max you can get in a vet battle

And yes there is something that balances players by skill. The issue is it handles a squad as a single player so if i queue as single player i usually end up getting matched against squads. How ever you can have matchmaking either fast or balanced or some sort of trade between this two. Thats what the current state is: It tries to start a match as quick as possible to keep queue times short and then distributes the players onto the teams trying to balance it out as good as possible. Works well as long as there isn't only a single squad in the match, thats what usually leads to pub stomps


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 9:55 a.m.


Updated //
April 10, 2018, 10:01 a.m.

The discrepancy between credits and XP grinding is currently too great, especially at T5 where the modules cost more credits than XP (STUPID!); this causes such a substantial difference in the current pay2progress-faster system that those with Elite and/or those that buy credit packs gain such an advantage that it turns into a pseudo-pay2win phenomenon.

Also, support modules earn hardly any rewards, if they do at all. Support my team with Stasis Ammo to prevent ramcan/corvette slaughters - never earn any points unless I get the finishing blow while opponent is debuffed. Support my team with H-ell Lasers - never earn any points. Meanwhile, Dreadnoughts and Tactical Cruiser combos get MASSIVE amounts of XP from tanking & healing; sure healing is helpful and should be rewarded, but tanking is more debatable. I don't have a problem with tanking earning points, but if this is really a team-focused game, then earnings should be well-distributed to include more pure-team-support modules too.


Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 12:15 p.m.



I fully agree lando. Why use purge, stasis or energy missile right now?

I watched a video from LYB Grimmhammer, a perfect example of a broken grind. Yes, he got 9k of xp, but with elite.

"Enterprise: What did I just watch?! Very awesome, I will try to grind for this build. But without elite you would only have had received 4583 xp and not 9000. That is the same I receive from a score of 1k when winning with BB. So there is no big difference in between. This is kind of broken for a grind. I would receive for a score of 1k around 4.2k, while you are only receiving a few hundred xp bonus, although you had a score of 3.1k on the leaderboard. Let's say I have a score of 1.100, the difference would be 2.050, but only a few hundred xp bonus. What a broken grind."

See? The score does only impact the grind by a few hundred xp. 4k xp without any boosters for a score of 3.1k is pretty...bad. I know that elite does that, but the rewards should be similar to the score, being doubled when winning. Plus BB and win bonus, perfect. Elite would be nurfed though I guess. Maybe only a bonus of 50% or so.


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 1:22 p.m.



Yeah, I've said many times support needs to be rewarded. The amount of times I've ran Tarterus to help get kills only to lose out on kills because of the lack of DPS is annoying, it encourages people to run damage builds so they can progress.


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Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 2:40 p.m.


Updated //
April 10, 2018, 3:38 p.m.

It is amusing that in a game that should be promoting teamplay the "lone wolf" builds are the best way to gain points/XP.

Mathematicly there will always be an "optimal" build, but there should not be much more then a few percent value difference between intended play styles (assuming equal player skill).


Posted: //
April 10, 2018, 4:49 p.m.



saying you need to be good pilot to progress faster, thats like telling a hunter you need to be an expert rifleman before you try and shoot.....like nobody is just expert right from the git go,practice makes perfect and when you finally get a tier 3 ship or any new ship for that matter you want to try it out and have fun,not get 2 shot killed every time,the point of games are for fun and enjoyment,if something takes aways from that in my oppinion than that needs fixed,i mean i would never recommend this to my nephews who are 10 and 12 to play this game,they would die left and right and have no fun at all,which means they wouldnt play again so fail on that,i think there should be a solo game mode where you can earn points to get new ships,maybe only to a certain tier or something anything that would make the game worth playing more than once.


Arrgh!! wrong button

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