FORUMS


PvP balance is terrible



Posted: //
April 16, 2018, 5:39 p.m.



So in my opinion the best way to solve PvP balance is to follow the principle of chess.

Chess only work when both players have exactly the same set of pieces.

Give one player 5 extra Queens and the game makes no sense for both side: the first one looses automatically, the second receives a false narrative of beeing good.

Dreadnought's PvP is far more complex then chess, but it doesnt follow the basic balancing principle.

You are allowing players to equip objectively better ships, not only better equipped, but also with more health and DPS.

The game is automatically rigged against you, treating you as cannon fodder.

Now the guy in fully researched T2 in recruit is going to have fun, but the guy who just started will be heavily encouraged to not play the game.

Whats the point if the only thing youll be doing for the first 10 games is loosing?

Not just looseing yourself, but craping on your team perfomance as well.

And not because you are bad or do not know the game, but because you are supposed to lose.

In Vet the number of missions you will be flying a starter ship is 100+ because of the grind.

All players who will suffer through the Recruit and visit the Vet missions will see the ropes and quit the game.

Bareing with Recruit is hard enough, you just have to loose 10, 20 games right?

In vet you have a whole season ruined. Weeks and months. By default. Nothing you can do about it.

Well you can not play the game. Hide and wait for the battle to be over.

Or you can not give a cookie and go die a miserable death 10 times loosing the game for your team.

Most players will see that, understand it and decide this is not fir them.

You are a free to play title. You NEED "most players" active in the game.

And if you are a PvP only title, balancing is key. It is priority above all.

I recommend rethinking progression, ship balance and dividing community into recruit, vet and legendary.

Or the game will loose active playerbase and barely survive supported by the most devoted fanbase. If youre lucky.

You already have a problem with players finding a match to play. So assume it is worth thinking about.


Posted: //
April 16, 2018, 6:07 p.m.



yeah balnce is a real issue. i only play veteran and regualraly see T2 ships that have no way of competing against my T4 ships.

i actually feel kind of bad because at that point there is little to no skill involved and as you say, the T2 ships are little more than fodder.

im not sure how other sims handle this issue as ive never played world of tanks etc... in fact dreadnought is my only experience in this genre. I also agree that splitting the player base into recruit/veteran/legendary is counter intuitive but how do you change that? completely changing progresion is a huge undertaking.

i remember the pain of getting curb stompped by T2 corvettes when i first started and that almost put me off so god knows how new players feel when they face my jutland, vindicta and blud.


Posted: //
April 16, 2018, 6:48 p.m.



PvP balancing example? Overwatch

Each individual character is the same ability kit with same health damage for all players, new or vet.

They do not level up and gain more power, only the skill determines the better player.

Of course each character still fulfilles its role on the field and team performance and composition is key to victory.

Dreadnought not only forces you to play a specific ship for the sake of upgrades and progression, potencially ruining your team composition and performance, but it also builds a gap in power of each individual ship: T4 vs T2 might be the most clear example.

The vet mission is a BS expirience for anyone who plays it at the beginning with a startet T3.

The problem with that is it will bleed game population and thats very bad for a live free to play game.

Unles the budget for this project is some kind of financial marvel. But i doublt it.


Posted: //
April 16, 2018, 9:38 p.m.



I put up with being a seal at a seal clubbing for a long while. Played Onslaught most of the time so that there was something I could actually kill.

Proving Grounds was a godsend as I had gotten to the point of needing to play my tier 4 fleet, and new tier 4 ships are nearly useless against seasoned ships with good loadouts. Over the many games that I played in Proving Grounds, I was nearly able to passively level up my chosen tier 4 ships to re-enter PvP. I was also almost to a tier 5 medium arty and gettin close on a tier 5 heavy arty.

Ran into one specific problem while in Proving Grounds. Somewhere about 14 kills the game usually nerfed my score. Getting 617 base points for 23 kills vs. 605 base for 14 wore thin quickly. Oh, and the other ships in your fleet got nothing. Greybox never did resolve this issue for me. Ended up playing most games watching my kills and then doing my best to find a corner to hide in while my team finished the game.

Then, one of the patches made the game litterally unplayable for me and I went elsewhere. I can play again, and I try a game every now and then, but don't find it near as interesting as my newer choice. I've probably played 4 games of Dreadnought in the last six months. I've got over 270 hours in my other choice in that same time and more ingame currency and experience that I really know what to do with. I also spent a good deal more real money there that I did here. Mostly trying to entice my kids to play with me.

For my money, and I did spend a bunch here, I'd suggest a good PvE environment. Proving Grounds is OK, but something with a goal that isn't just how many ships can you kill (especially when you effectively cheat your players out of their winnings). I got really good at that in Proving Grounds and it was getting old.

p.s. for developers: As I was transitioning from tier 2 to tier 3 I ended up playing ships that were already maxed out. Their xp could be converted for "gold", but I was 20-30 short of the amount needed. Rather than letting me convert what I had the "gold" to convert, I was forced to buy more. I think that was the last time I converted experience.


Posted: //
April 16, 2018, 9:53 p.m.



As a reference, I decided to go into Dreadnought and see what I had.

76379 XP that will cost 2303 GB to convert. That will never happen.

377.507 credits for what ever I need.

3646 GB, I think that is enough for 60 days of Elite, plus a little leftover.

I've 11 of the available tier 4 ships. 2 of the arties are equiped well and the Destroyer, Dreadnought, Corvette and Tac are nearly ready to play. I think I was almost to AS, which was going to be my threshold to try PvP again. I think I was closing in on 200 hours of playing.


Posted: //
April 17, 2018, 7:47 p.m.



Sad to hear the balance has not been improved at all. will check again in a few more months, thank you posting this.


The Harder It Is, The More We Grow.


Posted: //
April 19, 2018, midnight



Gentlemen,

Game balance in this game is absolutely amazing. The development team put in a lot of work regarding ship manufacturer strengths and weaknesses, modules, and officer briefs. What is more impressive to me are the combinations you can make, and how every combination has a counter. Really if you are finding significant imbalance, I would recommend joining the Dreadnought Beta Tester Discord, and discussing your thoughts on ship fittings with the gentlemen there. Several are very helpful, and while some may steer you towards meta, there are many that have a deep understanding of the game, and focus on concepts. Worth your time when you are feeling frustrated.

-DT


"Dreadnought is an amazing game. What makes it amazing you ask? It's the creators who took the time to create modules, officer briefs, and variations in ships that allow a counter for everything, and more importantly different levels of counters. It's like an authentic wargame played in real time where a person's decisions, coordination, and communication with their teammates are an essential component to gameplay that is just as important as piloting their ship. The key to winning is getting in discord, squading up, and working together. Anyone can do it, but few choose to do so." -DeathToll007


Posted: //
April 19, 2018, 9:01 a.m.



I've only had the game 5 days and I'm still playing recruit (I've only got one T3 ship), but the biggest PvP probelm I've encountered is since I always play solo, coming across a clan. When your team is a few solos and a new NPCs going against a clan coordinating with eachother, you just get decimated. The other night I was in two matches and the scores were something like 100-30 and 100-40. You just don't stand a chance and there's nothing you can do. It takes all the fun out of the match.

I don't plan on joining a clan nor am I buying a headset just to talk on this game, so it's nothing I can really solve. How do you prevent it from being matched in a game? Honestly I don't have enough experience with online games to say and given the low player base the game has, it may not even be possible to fix.



Posted: //
April 19, 2018, 8:13 p.m.



layinout#5947 posted (#post-218059) said:

As a reference, I decided to go into Dreadnought and see what I had.

76379 XP that will cost 2303 GB to convert. That will never happen.

377.507 credits for what ever I need.

3646 GB, I think that is enough for 60 days of Elite, plus a little leftover.

I've 11 of the available tier 4 ships. 2 of the arties are equiped well and the Destroyer, Dreadnought, Corvette and Tac are nearly ready to play. I think I was almost to AS, which was going to be my threshold to try PvP again. I think I was closing in on 200 hours of playing.

I've said this in other posts. The simple fix is to allow credits to be the currency used for xp conversion. I know this is a big frustration for a lot of people. This will get people to also regularly rotate between all the fleets and will keep a healthy playerbase for all levels of play.


Posted: //
April 20, 2018, 8:17 a.m.



LEFTIE_86#6104 posted (#post-218320) said:

layinout#5947 posted (#post-218059) said:

As a reference, I decided to go into Dreadnought and see what I had.

76379 XP that will cost 2303 GB to convert. That will never happen.

377.507 credits for what ever I need.

3646 GB, I think that is enough for 60 days of Elite, plus a little leftover.

I've 11 of the available tier 4 ships. 2 of the arties are equiped well and the Destroyer, Dreadnought, Corvette and Tac are nearly ready to play. I think I was almost to AS, which was going to be my threshold to try PvP again. I think I was closing in on 200 hours of playing.

I've said this in other posts. The simple fix is to allow credits to be the currency used for xp conversion. I know this is a big frustration for a lot of people. This will get people to also regularly rotate between all the fleets and will keep a healthy playerbase for all levels of play.

Or even vice versa. Even if it's a 10/1 ratio when converting, it's still better than spending GP, which given the conversion rate I don't see many people doing.


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