Just think about one fact, guys - the "issue" you are talking about is not a new one. It exists more then a year already, probably since OBT started. It's known of, you arent the first ones to mention it, and there's even a confirmed details about it - like that MM counts 4 lvl 50 man squad as a one lvl 50 player and puts only 1 lvl 50 player against them in other team. Almost every active person in official DN discord channel knows it and abuses it by playing only with squads.

If it is a bug - it seems critical to me. Because it makes game very uncomfortable and almost unplayble for solo players. I think any other MMO would start to fix it immeadetly, because game that focuses on all player categories (not only proskill) - cares about player comfort at the first place.

As we can see, game had no matchmaking updates in a very long time. I mean - none at all. Instead of it, devs focused on UI, hero ships, vanity items, and minor bugfixes (like duration of warp time). And even new upcoming updates anounce have no info about your "issue".

So where I'm going - why are you so sure that such priveleged matchmaking for squads are not intended?

Sometimes we hear stuff like "we have small playerbase, MM will become better when more players come" from dev team. Isnt that feels like complete trash to you? Expecting more players to come without improving game quality is just odd. Besides, what the difficulty to make at least equal number of high ranked players in one match? Comon, guys Don't be so naive.

My personal opinion is that the Devs are fully aware of the major problems with team creation, but fear doing something about that will cause long que times, both of which will cause players to quit.

It's also my opinion that being put in this tough situation, the Devs focus instead of vanity and other items that can be purchased, it's further my opinion that doing so they hope people will invest enough, to make them feel like they cannot leave because of their monetary investment.

Eventually the team creation problem must be fixed, period. If not, the game will fail, there are far too many examples of exactly this type of problem that broke other MMOs.

It's further my opinion that by not addressing these issues, and getting new players used to playing a broken team creation system, that it will create a fake game enviroment for them, where later it will be changed. But before that change happens, those people will never have the chance to play the game in the way it was intended to be played because they become frustrated and leave. In effect, Greybox is asking players to play beta, to spend money playing beta, so they can continue to develop the game but are asking us to do so using a broken team creation method that treats random players unfairly.

I wish that Greybox and the Devs would be more open with their intentions, if I know they have no plans to fix the team creation issue, I'll quit now. I get the feeling that the Devs do not want to express exactly what their intentions are, for fear more people will flee the game. But that also is wrong of them to do. We need to know what the real intentions are in regards to team creation issues so we as consumers can make decisions based on information that comes right from the horses mouth. We need to know, and considering how much some have spent on this game, we deserve to know.

So if any Devs bother reading these posts, lets have it, tell us what the real intent in team creation is, please. If it doesn't fit with my play style, I'll leave, I should have that information, and deserve it so I can make a decision if I want to stick it out and spend my free time playing this game, or play some other game that fits my playstyle better.

If the Devs want to continue the game with a broken team creation system, I have no issue with that so long as I know and can then stop wasting my time supporting a game that does not fit with my ideals. As a consumer, it's my right to know exactly what I am buying.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220386) said:

Just think about one fact, guys - the "issue" you are talking about is not a new one. It exists more then a year already, probably since OBT started. It's known of, you arent the first ones to mention it, and there's even a confirmed details about it - like that MM counts 4 lvl 50 man squad as a one lvl 50 player and puts only 1 lvl 50 player against them in other team. Almost every active person in official DN discord channel knows it and abuses it by playing only with squads.

If it is a bug - it seems critical to me. Because it makes game very uncomfortable and almost unplayble for solo players. I think any other MMO would start to fix it immeadetly, because game that focuses on all player categories (not only proskill) - cares about player comfort at the first place.

As we can see, game had no matchmaking updates in a very long time. I mean - none at all. Instead of it, devs focused on UI, hero ships, vanity items, and minor bugfixes (like duration of warp time). And even new upcoming updates anounce have no info about your "issue".

So where I'm going - why are you so sure that such priveleged matchmaking for squads are not intended?

Sometimes we hear stuff like "we have small playerbase, MM will become better when more players come" from dev team. Isnt that feels like complete trash to you? Expecting more players to come without improving game quality is just odd. Besides, what the difficulty to make at least equal number of high ranked players in one match? Comon, guys Don't be so naive.

So it's your opinion that the game developers intend for team creation to be so flawed, that there exists no challenge? Are you saying that they want to drive people out of the game, because all the evidence points to team creation as one of the major problems with people leaving the game. Do you really believe your logic makes sense? Honestly? Please, in all seriousness, answer honestly.

I get the feeling you are just grabbing for some argument that supports your views. But in doing so, you make yourself seem like you are emotionally defending that which you cannot logically. What you suggest makes absolutely no logical sense at all. If the devs intend for an unfair team creation to benefit only a small percentage of the player base, what do you really honestly think the other players, the majority in fact, are going to do? Leave. It doesn't take above average logic to know this as fact. It just simply takes using logic.

If the devs encourage solo play, and if most players play solo random prior to getting to a T5 ship, what you are suggesting is that the Devs are going out of their way to decieve people paying money to play casually as a random, and allowing further deception by creation a team creation system that not only allows for single randoms, but is mostly made up of single randoms. You honestly believe that the Devs are being that dishonest about team creation? You really truly believe that they are trying to force everyone to play in squads, when most people choose or do not? You really think they are trying to force us to their will by creating this loosing system and using a broken, unfair team creation system?

Do you have no idea at all how absolutely disconnected with reality you sound?

Nexeroff#4718 posted (#post-220388) said:

So if any Devs bother reading these posts, lets have it, tell us what the real intent in team creation is, please. If it doesn't fit with my play style, I'll leave, I should have that information, and deserve it so I can make a decision if I want to stick it out and spend my free time playing this game, or play some other game that fits my playstyle better.

I can tell you already what they will say:

Hey Nexeroff, we are constantly working towards bettering the matchmaking system. Right now the system works around players finding matches. We expect to have an increase in population as we release new updates to the game. We are working towards players not only finding matches but also being closely matched in skill and fleet rating. We appreciate you taking the time to submit your feedback!

Which means that your opinion is very "important" to them. Actions should be their words in that case, not fake promises. And i dont see any actions improving matchmaking past two years. Here's your answer, btw.

Nexeroff#4718 posted (#post-220389) said:

Do you have no idea at all how absolutely disconnected with reality you sound?

Does the fact that critical matchmaking exploit, that everyone knows about, which makes game very unpleasant for majority of players and makes them leave matches and the game - isnt being fixed for two years connects well with your reality?

Im not really emotional or anything. Im just talking about what I see - because actions worth more then words. And the actions are:

1. broken matchmaking for two years

2. everyone knows

3. no fix

4. UI, vanity items, small bugfixes in every update

5. fake promises

Now try to figure out what that means. Except "this works as intended" or "devs dont consider this bug important and dont care about solo players" - that's too obvious.

By the way, you should try applying all your suggstions about my arguments to yourself. I mean, you're trying too hard to prove me wrong. Maybe you are emotionally defending what you like most?

The Devs have said the MM needs more players to work as intended. So It's not going to change unless they don't get the needed player base with steam launch.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220393) said:

Nexeroff#4718 posted (#post-220389) said:

Do you have no idea at all how absolutely disconnected with reality you sound?

Does the fact that critical matchmaking exploit, that everyone knows about, which makes game very unpleasant for majority of players and makes them leave matches and the game - isnt being fixed for two years connects well with your reality?

Im not really emotional or anything. Im just talking about what I see - because actions worth more then words. And the actions are:

1. broken matchmaking for two years

2. everyone knows

3. no fix

4. UI, vanity items, small bugfixes in every update

5. fake promises

Now try to figure out what that means. Except "this works as intended" or "devs dont consider this bug important and dont care about solo players" - that's too obvious.

By the way, you should try applying all your suggstions about my arguments to yourself. I mean, you're trying too hard to prove me wrong. Maybe you are emotionally defending what you like most?

Meh, what you stated before is very different to what you are stating in this post.

Here are a few of your statements in regards to this:

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220262) said:

Dreadnought isnt a casual game, so you must learn and adapt. Player rank doesnt affect your skill. Learn to play, get your own squad, and win. This game is all about teamplay, so its obvious and logical that squads win more games than random solo players. If you dont want to do that - its your problem, not game's.

TO correct you, teams are not squads, teams can have squads but can also be all randoms. But the point is that you were saying in your first posts on this thread, more or less, this is the way the game is suppose to function, join a squad but you use the word team. Also, this game is rated as being casual to dedicated, it does happen to be casual as well, most games are. If you think logically about this, the very fact that people can pay to increase their XP, or buy hero ships to farm XP or many other ways, paying to elevate your character is meant and intended for CASUAL PLAY. It's a common developer tactic to get a good solid player base of casual and more active players which makes for more dynamic gameplay.

Ha-ha-ha... How is it used to talk with pocket fanboys? "You just have not enough skill, play better." And this is the only answer to you.

Here you suggest that it isn't team creation that is at fault, but the players skills. You are now saying something utterly different, again here you have changed what you are saying.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220273) said:

That's why you can't get better. You just bail out from any challenge, and then going forums to whine about "broken matchmaking". Only thing broken here is your attitude. Matchmaking is fine. Also, maybe this game isn't for you?

Here you are actually stating, very clearly, that matchmaking is fine which would insinuate you believe there to be absolutely no problems with matchmaking, whcih you also are now saying something totally different.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220349) said:

Just keep lying about your "issues" that "killing" the game, there's 0.00001% chance that some dev might actually believe your words.

Anyway, I believe that DN developers will focus on the actual game problems, instead of wasting time on comforting a small insignificant bunch of leavers that avoiding any challenge and refusing to play teamplay game as a team.

tl;dr: stop projecting your small problems on a game. Learn to play and get a squad.

In this post you are saying that the entire issue of team creation and stating it as an issue is a lie. You also are stating that there are more serious problems, and that team creation is not a problem and if fixed it would be a waste of time. You also suggest that people leaving an unfair match are not looking for a challenge. I would challege you to explain that better. I see it this way, the people afraid of a challenge are the very people who join squads, just like you, who want to win all matches without any challenge, which playing in a squad against a bunch of randoms really amounts to. You are the one avoiding a challenge when you play in a squad, period. Not the random players who against all odds and incredibly grinding difficulty, stick it out and push through to T4 and T5 ships. THAT has merit, more than you could realize considering you play in squads and have little experience otherwise.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220342) said:

It's confirmed by devs that punishment for leavers will be significantly increased in next updates. So yeah, the issue of your kind ruining games for everyone will be fixed soon

And although not related to team creation specifically, but rather the topic of leaving a game that you cannot possibly win, which is NOT a challenge, it fits within this particular discussion. Now you are suggesting punishment for those who avoid unfair matches, and that you confirmed with DEVs about this. Lets see the proof, according to the information I recently received, your claim is absolutely incorrect, made up, a lie in fact. So now that you have changed your tune, changed your argument, is this something you are willing to admit you lied about, or do you intend to stick to your lie? And if I am wrong, I will publically apologize for being so, but why not post the thread you read that in, I cannot find anything related to it at all except what you posted.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-220233) said:

Well after playing for almost a year I've uninstalled. The MM has p**sed me off for the last time.

Lopsided games have become the norm, and I've lost interest, which is sad because the game play is great. But Only winning one game in 5 because you are facing squads or the game just stacks ships one side over the other is not.

This is the most hilarious post I've read in months.

The most die-hard defender of the corrupt and ignorant devs is quitting. I suspect however that he'll continue to defend the higher ups and the massive screw ups of the devs.

It takes a very special person to defend devs for so long - reminds me of Trump's spokesperson.

Enterprise_NC1701#2026 posted (#post-220348) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-220344) said:

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220342) said:

It's confirmed by devs that punishment for leavers will be significantly increased in next updates. So yeah, the issue of your kind ruining games for everyone will be fixed soon

Yeah, "his kind" are the ones that ruin games... Since you haven't noticed (missing a recurring theme of yours), the game will die because of people like you, not him. You sound like a religious fanatic with questionable sanity.

Hey, I am not the onliest religous fanatic with questionable sanity here, great

I really hate it when people leave because of squads. We have to do all the work, and that captain just leaves. Traitors, sorry but it really feels like this sometimes.

I never leave during a match. I'm not starting any new ones either, that's for sure. No hate, just can't embrace the 3rd party discord/squad seal-clubbing.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-220399) said:

The Devs have said the MM needs more players to work as intended. So It's not going to change unless they don't get the needed player base with steam launch.

I bet you remember the days when the player base was pretty massive - and I bet you remember what caused the player base to shrink to near extinction levels - and I bet you remember countering every complaint by the departing players with 'it's beta', 'it's not their fault - the development cycle is very complex' - after every 'update' with triple the bugs prior to each update.

In any case - this game will head to steam and will no longer be beta. Here is the thing though - this game hasn't been in beta phase on PS4 for months now, but even there the player base has been shrinking like the PC player base. Steam will give the player base a big boost in the beginning, but my prediction is this - nothing will change. Every update by the devs will contain another 10 new bugs, players will realize they are being trolled - this game will die one way or another.

You can't fix this game unless you replace nearly every development team member with someone competent - and that's not going to happen.