FORUMS


Remove battle bonus from the game please



Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 12:11 p.m.



Anyone#6415 posted (#post-221577) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-221567) said:

The point of BB is as Snib said. To encourage people to rotate fleets and keep all divisions populated.

Which is stupid, because I won't switch to another devision for battle bonus. Why would I play my veteran fleet if I've unlocked whatever I want and there's legendary for me to play? If anything, this incentive is against people that want to play legendary, because they are "forced" back into veteran, stomping pubs.

I didn't say is wasn't. Just exsplaning why it is the way it is.


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Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 6:47 p.m.



The point of putting experienced players into veteran and/or especially recruit should not be a point, as it just scares away new players, which have absolutely no chance in 99%. Removing BB without touching the amount of grind should be easily possible, although almost everyone would welcome a little more income for sure. +1 for removing BB, as it just makes people wait inbetween matches


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Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 7:48 p.m.


Updated //
May 30, 2018, 7:48 p.m.

VirtualRiot#3785 posted (#post-221582) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-221567) said:

The point of BB is as Snib said. To encourage people to rotate fleets and keep all divisions populated.

Some people don't like it and I get where they are coming from. I can see the Devs not wanting to do it because we all know credits are the thing we need.

Maybe they'd consider adding the removal of BB as a perk of elite. Could be a good incentive for people to buy it.

I like that idea. Wish that instead of making the grind longer, they just made elite better.

You mean make it more pay to win than free to play?


Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 7:56 p.m.



P2W = Buying something with real money that IS NOT obtainable in game that offers a significant power advantage over others. Pay to Progress Faster is not Pay to win,

If so elite is already P2W.


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Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 8:18 p.m.


Updated //
May 30, 2018, 8:19 p.m.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-221630) said:

P2W = Buying something with real money that IS NOT obtainable in game that offers a significant power advantage over others. Pay to Progress Faster is not Pay to win,

If so elite is already P2W.

First time I have ever heard the term "Pay to Progress". When I googled it, thinking I had missed a significant description of MMOs that might use this, all my google search returned was Pay to Win information.

While looking at pay to win information, I found these definitions:

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players. This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play." - Game-Wisdom

In my opinion giving those of us who subscribe even more benefits over those who do not really amounts to making this game more Pay to Win, specially considering it's directly related to reducing the grind. It could be that I have missed something and am wrong. I myself pay for a subscription, and I bought content even though this game is still in beta. I do this because I wanted the benefit myself, and to suppor the game. However, I still don't agree that those who pay should receive even more benefit in comparison to those who do not.

In regards to player retention, I think giving those of us who have a subscription even more advantage would only serve to upset people who do not pay for a subscription, and perhaps also cause them to leave.

Pay to Progress sounds like paying to reduce grind, which really amounts to paying to win in my opinion. "Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

If my opinion is wrong, I would like to know. If you can, please, in the spirit of learning, will you explain how paying to progress is different than paying to win?


Posted: //
May 30, 2018, 8:26 p.m.



Anyone#6415 posted (#post-221577) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-221567) said:

The point of BB is as Snib said. To encourage people to rotate fleets and keep all divisions populated.

Which is stupid, because I won't switch to another devision for battle bonus. Why would I play my veteran fleet if I've unlocked whatever I want and there's legendary for me to play? If anything, this incentive is against people that want to play legendary, because they are "forced" back into veteran, stomping pubs.

good point.

thx for bringing that up.

on ps4 thats actually what happens as we cant find any legendary matches you go pubstomp on veteran matches.

with that we punish the few players that enjoy the game and try to overcome the rediculous grind just to get pubstomped.

even when there are a few players actually in the game they tend to wait out the battle bonus which isnt good for a game with an already low population.

at this point anything that would help the playerbase grow and make them play more often, rather than keeping them from playing would be very welcome.


Posted: //
May 31, 2018, 8:20 a.m.



HandSolo#4718 posted (#post-221633) said:

If my opinion is wrong, I would like to know. If you can, please, in the spirit of learning, will you explain how paying to progress is different than paying to win?

Opinions are never wrong, just different.

Pay to win is unervisaly accepted as you buy something from the games cash shop that you can't get any other way, and gives you an advantage over people who do not. As an exsample of this, only being able to buy OB's from the cash shop for money only (and not GP that you can earn from the "achievments") instead of the tech trees.

Now Pay to progress, takes many forms. In this game, elite is pay to progress as It normalises your XP income. I think this because if you have a great game, you can get a good amount of XP, if you have a bad game, you don't get as little as you would with out elite. So In that I believe elite is just normalising your XP/Credit income to progress at a steady rate. The same way converting XP from maxed ships, You are paying to progress a little faster, and this will grant in an exstream exsample an advantage over your opponants, but only for a limited amount of time, as the people who do not pay will catch you up, and be on the same "power level" as you as it where.

Other games sell level boosters to get your characters to max level, which in Guild wars 2 will only give you an advantage over lower level players in WvWvW (Massive three way battles between team of 150 players per team.) You you'll have more health, traits and skills to use in your builds. But as I said this is only a limiting factor as players can level up the "normal" way can be on the same footing. It will just take them longer.

And the down side to that can also be, as we know, progress too fast and you end up on your own, like how legendary was for months of people not being able to regualy find matches. Now people have caught up, Legendary matches are more common, sure some players will have the power advantage, but they will not have it for ever. Sooner or later people will catch up. In pay to win, You never catch up, the people who pay win all the time because they have the items a non paying player just can't have access to.


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Posted: //
May 31, 2018, 8:38 a.m.


Updated //
May 31, 2018, 8:39 a.m.

Belial it's not as clear cut though. If some things can be bought that theoretically are available for free but only after unrealistic amounts of grind that only few, if any, players will achieve, or if they are not economically viable to obtain with in-game resources (think some cases of premium ammo here), then often they are widely considered pay to win as well.

That just as a general remark - neither of those are relevant to your suggestion, which would indeed just be pay to progress faster. It's still not a good suggestion, because BB negatively impacts player counts and thus everyone's experience, also that of the paying customers, so IMHO a better solution should be found that keeps everyone playing.


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Posted: //
May 31, 2018, 9:37 a.m.



HandSolo#4718 posted (#post-221633) said:

If so elite is already P2W.

First time I have ever heard the term "Pay to Progress". When I googled it, thinking I had missed a significant description of MMOs that might use this, all my google search returned was Pay to Win information.

While looking at pay to win information, I found these definitions:

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players. This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play." - Game-Wisdom

In my opinion giving those of us who subscribe even more benefits over those who do not really amounts to making this game more Pay to Win, specially considering it's directly related to reducing the grind. It could be that I have missed something and am wrong. I myself pay for a subscription, and I bought content even though this game is still in beta. I do this because I wanted the benefit myself, and to suppor the game. However, I still don't agree that those who pay should receive even more benefit in comparison to those who do not.

In regards to player retention, I think giving those of us who have a subscription even more advantage would only serve to upset people who do not pay for a subscription, and perhaps also cause them to leave.

Pay to Progress sounds like paying to reduce grind, which really amounts to paying to win in my opinion. "Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

If my opinion is wrong, I would like to know. If you can, please, in the spirit of learning, will you explain how paying to progress is different than paying to win?

A simplified explanation:

Pay to Win: you need to pay real money in order to obtain items that, at higher levels, are required to win. These items are not available in game without purchasing.

Pay to Progress: all (non-cosmetic) items are are available, however it will take a long time to get them without paying to speed progression.

In other words Dreadnought is Pay to progress because you can, as an example, access all T4 and T5 ships and modules, but it's going to take you a long time to get them because of the in-game costs. If Dreadnought was Pay to Win, you would not be able to access T4 and T5 ships and modules w/o paying Greybox real money.

Dreadnought doesn't have its core aspects of the game locked w/o paying, only cosmetic items. That means it's not a Pay to Win.



Posted: //
May 31, 2018, 10:24 a.m.



SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-221654) said:

HandSolo#4718 posted (#post-221633) said:

If so elite is already P2W.

First time I have ever heard the term "Pay to Progress". When I googled it, thinking I had missed a significant description of MMOs that might use this, all my google search returned was Pay to Win information.

While looking at pay to win information, I found these definitions:

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players. This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play." - Game-Wisdom

In my opinion giving those of us who subscribe even more benefits over those who do not really amounts to making this game more Pay to Win, specially considering it's directly related to reducing the grind. It could be that I have missed something and am wrong. I myself pay for a subscription, and I bought content even though this game is still in beta. I do this because I wanted the benefit myself, and to suppor the game. However, I still don't agree that those who pay should receive even more benefit in comparison to those who do not.

In regards to player retention, I think giving those of us who have a subscription even more advantage would only serve to upset people who do not pay for a subscription, and perhaps also cause them to leave.

Pay to Progress sounds like paying to reduce grind, which really amounts to paying to win in my opinion. "Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." - Urban Dictionary

If my opinion is wrong, I would like to know. If you can, please, in the spirit of learning, will you explain how paying to progress is different than paying to win?

A simplified explanation:

Pay to Win: you need to pay real money in order to obtain items that, at higher levels, are required to win. These items are not available in game without purchasing.

So an example of this would be items we can only purchase with money, like some packages with hero ships, that then XP can be farmed from?

And let's be honest, if we earned all available GP through achievements, we might be able to buy a hero ship, but would not be able to convert XP to free XP. So that does seem like exactly what you saying here.

Pay to Progress: all (non-cosmetic) items are are available, however it will take a long time to get them without paying to speed progression.

Pay to win also includes reducing grind by pay money for that benefit. Hero ships again are a good example of this, a player who has purchased hero ships, can stack their hanger with them,accumulate XP, and then pay to convert them to free XP.

In other words Dreadnought is Pay to progress because you can, as an example, access all T4 and T5 ships and modules, but it's going to take you a long time to get them because of the in-game costs. If Dreadnought was Pay to Win, you would not be able to access T4 and T5 ships and modules w/o paying Greybox real money.

Realistically, players who do not pay, cannot buy enough hereo ships or any hero ship, to help reduce grind, a lot of GP we earned is directly related to higher tier ships, so are not accessible for farming XP at lower tiers. They only benefit those who purchase them in regards to reducing grind.

Dreadnought doesn't have its core aspects of the game locked w/o paying, only cosmetic items. That means it's not a Pay to Win.

In my opinion, this game by your own definitions is both pay to win, and pay to progress. Further, it's my opinion that the term pay to progress is a sub definition to pay to win. Just because this term is used by greybox, does not negate it also being pay to win. For me, it's simply a way to promote the F2P concept without taking on the negative aspects of also being pay to win. It very well may be that some who quit, do so because they thought the game was F2P, but then realize that those of us who do pay, have a huge advantage over those who do not, and to obtain those very items to reduce grind, mean they must grind all the way to T5 ships, before making enough gp to buy those items that can reduce grind, which means they must complete the grind, before they make enough gp to reduce the grind they already completed. In reality, they do not have access to the same benefits of those who pay. You call it pay to progress, I understand, and that is your opinion. My opinion is that this is clearly pay to win.

There are many more examples I could state, but I am currently using my phone, and this site behaves glitchy for me. So if you would like other examples I can post them when I am back home.

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