FORUMS


Suggestion: Rework Progression System



Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 6:14 p.m.



There is reasons why they are leading the industry in size, income, and records (like highest pvp battles etc (eve online)).

you have made a reference to a game that has been out in the wild for 15 years now. With that amount of time they have had time too grow and adapt to player base and conditions while putting recources back into r & d and improvments. I have also heard many negetive comments about that game as well as " leauge " and Blizzard ( loot boxes ). So I"ll state again that this game is still in the early stages with a massive potential to come . Comes down to not living above your means. My question too you is this ; Are you a buissness owner and self-employed ? If by chance that you are do you have a buissness partner telling you what to do with your company ? Based on human nature I am going to assume that the dev's are doing the best they can with what they have to work with creatively. As stated above the other figure head is control of the finacial side of things much like an accountant. With any partnership all parties envolved have to agree on whatever needs to be decided.


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 6:16 p.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2018, 6:20 p.m.

The way this game makes money is in esence a subscription service. With a top up via cosmetics and hero ships. It needs to support it's self, regardless of how much money the company makes, if the game can not support it's self out side of launch it will not survive. With that said, every developer hope a games launch will make the game. Saying a game that launches on a public platform hoping it to be sucessful is doomed, it is not logical. When a game is released any developer wants the game to be a sucsess, they don't know that until it's out there. Very few games in this day and age are not on a 3rd party site like steam.

I wanted to tackle the income seperately, as it is a big topic also.

The game makes money from people, not from systems.

This is a really big point that really needs to be driven into peoples heads. Additionally, Grey boy is generating upwards of 200 million a year (its realistically probly like 120-130m). At this point money is no longer an issue for the game. This was fairly clear to me when the studio had 60 developers (As I was told).

This tells me more likely what is taking place is the investors are money hungry and are knocking the games design constructs around to obtain more income for their weekend party house.

This is a very hard topic to address with them, and its almost nearly impossible to shake them from positions like that. They are bent on optimizing the income of the game, not whats best for this. Its why some games like League, Fornite, Wow, etc are so healthy, because its developers and investors know now to mix business into the development cycle of the game.

So when it comes to the tier system you should understand that the game does not "need" the tier system to survive, especially for grey boy.

Now this being said lets talk numbers for a minute.

Lets say we swap to the system that I am advocating for.

Lets say it takes 5 hours to grind resources for a ship, or $10-20 per a ship. Lets say we break the game into 5 types of game play. Tank, Healer, Artillary, Damage, Speed (or respectively named Dreadnough, Logistics, Artillary, Destroyer, Corvette)

Lets say in each section there is 15 ships. This places the potential buying power of just raw ships to 500$ This increases the income to 2500 if 5 skins are applied to each ship. This also reduces the need to focus on balance so -% of developer expenses This also streamlines producing new skins and extra's for the team, increasing income further. This also provides faster ques This also provides more balance (no cross tier balance needed) This also produces more motivation for game play (by instant exposure to various types of ships to all players as opposed to parts of the population) This also encourages higher competitive and cooperative game play. It makes the gui and progression more cleaner.

Do you see where we are going now?


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 6:24 p.m.



you have made a reference to a game that has been out in the wild for 15 years now. With that amount of time they have had time too grow and adapt to player base and conditions while putting recources back into r & d and improvments.

Actually, eve's population is slowly dying off. at its peak 100k was online, its now around 40-60k.

I have also heard many negetive comments about that game as well as " leauge " and Blizzard ( loot boxes ). So I"ll state again that this game is still in the early stages with a massive potential to come . Comes down to not living above your means. My question too you is this ; Are you a buissness owner and self-employed ? If by chance that you are do you have a buissness partner telling you what to do with your company ? Based on human nature I am going to assume that the dev's are doing the best they can with what they have to work with creatively. As stated above the other figure head is control of the finacial side of things much like an accountant. With any partnership all parties envolved have to agree on whatever needs to be decided.

Ceo and founder has legal power to implement changes according to how he see's fit. The board (if there) can fire him, but ultimately he can make the call and force the cfo to comply. Also the CFO should be on top of the marketing, so if this is not the case he needs to sell his shares and get out of the partnership, because he's not doing his job (or get fired).

It is clear to me as a developer that this is not taking place (or its not getting accurate data), so it seems to point fingers at the CFO. If this is the case the partnership needs to have some discussion.


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 7:39 p.m.



Lets say it takes 5 hours to grind resources for a ship, or $10-20 per a ship. Lets say we break the game into 5 types of game play. Tank, Healer, Artillary, Damage, Speed (or respectively named Dreadnough, Logistics, Artillary, Destroyer, Corvette)

Lets say in each section there is 15 ships

So you are saying that people would play 15 ships per class x [times] 5 types that = 75 ships now times that by 5 hours "grind time" that comes to 375 hours right ? . My opinion is that potential that you are speaking of "as a developer " is ill advised simply because when anybody finds that ship that works for them they will not play the others that you are suggesting thus making that potential null or mute as I have stated before. Those like so many other things sound good on paper it's when you put them into practical use you then see the shortcommings. Also " as a developer " if you were able to provide some projects that you and you alone have gotten published that would give some credibilty. I do applaude your interest and enthusiasm with this game and subject matter. I just think that you are barking up a very tall tree. And I'm sure you can allways submit you're resume to 6 foot if you feel so inclined as a developer


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 8:52 p.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2018, 8:53 p.m.

is ill advised simply because when anybody finds that ship that works for them they will not play the others that you are suggesting thus making that potential null or mute as I have stated before.

So your telling me that people in league of legends, Hero's of the storm, Dota, and so forth only play 1 toon? The answer is no. Its like arguing that just because there is a tier system people play multiple classes only because there is a tier system, which is utter nonsense. In fact, the tier system with massive amounts of grind is usually more a transgressor for forcing single ship play then others (just due to the fact that it takes countless hours alone to get tier 5 (or what ever high tier the specific game has).

This point alone destroys your arguement.

Secondly,

We take evidences from multiple sources to gain the more accurate position. Individual projects i have worked on are not taking larger amounts of data into this situation. Thus, as a result the 4 AAA titles i have worked on are almost outdone by moba class games alone, thus, my individual experiences on this point are mute when we can take from 20-30 plus examples of this system.

Accuracy is important, especially when we are talking about massive changes to a games progression system and business model (ironically, are the literal backbones and joints of a game).

Lastly, Please do not ask for my personal information. I will not provide it publically on a forum, and in the past when i have provided it privately it results in trolling. I have absolutely no interest in providing you with personal information (though i may provide that to the developers if I so choose to).


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 9:34 p.m.



sounds like I struck a nerve that time as i'm sure you have done here with others. You are just the same as i am merly end users in a game. Just a couple of single pons in a very big chess game so forgive my untrusting ways but i have come across many people who were not what they said they were. For all i know you could be the all powfull oz himself or just a case of smoke and mirrors. I usually find that trying to reinvent the wheel well after the fact that it has been cast and rolling proove allmost imposible


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 9:57 p.m.



sounds like I struck a nerve that time as i'm sure you have done here with others. You are just the same as i am merly end users in a game.

So you worked almost two decades in game development? Its clear from talking to you that your positions are unfounded opinions. Now you are resorting to ad-hom attacks. Seems like a sound position to me.


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 10:14 p.m.



no i am not attacking at all I'm am just saying as a US. vet I served to protect everyones equal rights to include for you to have your own opinion and you freedom of speech. I too am affored these rights and I don't condone your suspect alligations. And no one like to be told on how to do their job including the developers of this game , nobody is telling you how to do your job. I do agree that change is good but untill you are the guy signing the paychecks then these changes will not take effect. Let them do their job


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 10:56 p.m.



no i am not attacking at all I'm am just saying as a US. vet I served to protect everyones equal rights to include for you to have your own opinion and you freedom of speech. I too am affored these rights and I don't condone your suspect alligations. And no one like to be told on how to do their job including the developers of this game , nobody is telling you how to do your job. I do agree that change is good but untill you are the guy signing the paychecks then these changes will not take effect. Let them do their job

I am telling them how to do their job, and your opinion cannot change that.


Posted: //
June 17, 2018, 11:07 p.m.



ok ... that's fine. that's your opinion on this and you are intilted to it.

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