FORUMS


The things that make this game not fun



Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 9 a.m.


Updated //
July 25, 2018, 9:20 a.m.

There are a couple huge design issues in this game that just suck the fun out of it, and that seem to simply get ignored. Maybe nobody has really put into words yet why these are so obnoxious, but I'm pretty sure that just about everyone who walked away from this game has noticed at least one of these ruining their fun.

  1. Way too many abilities that take away your ability to defend yourself. Scrambler Pulse, Drain Pulse, Disruptor Missile, these are basically full on in violation of what has been known in game design for decades: It's not fun to be unable to do anything. All by themselves these don't kill you, but when you get hit with them you are immediately helpless to defend yourself from any number of things that will.

  2. Way too many things that are basically an instakill. If you play any of the ships with lower health any number of things in the game will simply kill you outright if they ever hit you without your shield up. Too bad that your ability to put your shield up can be completely disabled by any number of things. There are way too many ships in this game that can rush in, score a kill in seconds and warp out. This is a game about giant spaceships, yet many of the ships in it get destroyed faster than you do in any fighter game.

  3. Speaking of warping out, the fact that warping isn't a standard module on all ships is absurd. This ability is so incredibly good that basically if your ship has an option for a warp drive in the 4 slot you are just punishing yourself by not taking it. There is nothing that comes even close to the utility of being able to teleport. Whether you're going after objectives, have to get out of a bad position, or want to attack your opponents flank, warping will get it done. Something this strong shouldn't be treated like its a choice.

  4. Balance is bad. I've been keeping track of who the top scorers are in the matches I'm in, and it's pretty much always people who use fast cruisers that have builds that exploit points 1 and 2 I made to their fullest. Charge in with Engine Rigger, hit people with Scramble or Drain pulses, then kill them with a plasma ram or storm missiles, then hit jump drive or thrust amplifier to get away. You just see this played out over and over and it's pretty much the calling card of anyone who ends the match with double digit kills. There is no real counterplay to this. Even if you have abilities that counter it, they can still get lucky and score a kill or go after someone else, while your ship is harmless for the rest of the match with its abilities selected for defense.

  5. Worthless secondary weapons. Seriously, what good is a defensive weapon with 700m range in this game? It's only use is to kill someone who's too stupid to just stay at 1km and laugh while they kill you. Does anyone know what a particle turret is good for? I sure couldn't find anyone. The few secondary weapons that actually seem kind of cool, like Heavy Mortars are squirreled away in Tier 5, where you won't get to use them given how few legendary matches happen, and where most people will never even reach before getting bored with all of this. There should be a large variety of actually useful secondaries for all ships. not just for Tier 5.

  6. Bad progression scheme. You never get the sense that you're progressing by using what you enjoy using and unlocking the things you want to unlock. Everything in this game is always unlocked around some corner where you have to use something completely unrelated. Like dreadnoughts? Well, to unlock all of them you're going to have to play tacs and cruisers. Want the briefing that's most useful for your ship? Oh well, we stashed that half way down tier 4 in a ship of a different class.

I feel like these things need to be addressed somehow. These are just all issues that take away the fun in the game, and don't make me want to put any money in it.


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 9:25 a.m.



To 1.: I disagree that they are bad design. They add depth and counterplay to the game. Defense is very strong in this game and needs possible counters or it would just be endless healball slugfests. They are also neither "I-win"-buttons nor disable you completly. What they do is force you to react to and prepare for them, which is good design. By the way, the scramble doesn't blind you completely, it is very possible to recognize close ships and shoot them.


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 10:32 a.m.



Thanks for the feedback Aetrion! Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, and while a lot of these sound like opinions, I'll try to answer them the best I can.

  1. We're not going to be removing abilities from the game. But we're looking into ways we can provide info to players so they get a better understanding of them and what they do.

  2. If things are an "instakill" there's usually a counter or strategy to keep that from happening. I'd recommend looking up strategies and tactics, maybe even trying a different ship. This is also a more straight forward and action based experience, not a simulation, so the experience isn't going to be spongey.

  3. Dreadnought was created with a number of influences in mind. At the time the team felt it fit best with larger ships, not smaller ones, or every single one. It may work in some universes, but our team felt it worked best this way in ours.

  4. Balance is something that we frequently discuss. Once our next game update + Steam launch is complete or teams plan on going through class, module, and weapon balance. You can expect more balance adjustments to come as we're a live service.

  5. There are some tweaks required for secondary weapons and we know this. But do remember primary weapons are almost always preferred in battle. Though secondaries can sometimes be even more helpful with enemies that are up close or within range. Especially when you're reloading your primary.

  6. Progression flow is also something our team continues to assess and see how it can be improved. Our overall objective is to do whatever we can to make the majority happy. There's a lot to be done and we can't wait to get it all done.

If you haven't yet, I'd recommend checking out this article to get an idea of everything that we're doing right now, and our plans.

Thanks again for the support!


Having any issues and need some assistance? Our support team would be more than happy to help! You can reach out to them here!

Miguel "MiguelItUp" Rial - Six Foot Player Relations Specialist


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 10:59 a.m.



Thanks for sharing your opinion. I do disagree with some points you have.

  1. These are counters for modules. But there are modules that also counter the debuff modules too. Granted not all ships have access to them, but that is then down to balance. If you are worried about drain, take energy gen. Worried about acramble/stasis take armor amp/energy gen/scrubber module. Weapon braker? Take weapon booster. Worried about fast moving ships, stasis ammo or stasis pulse.

You don't like them and that's fine, but they are not going anywhere.

  1. There are mobiles that will save you from instant kills. Armor amp, energy gen, warp, anti missile lasers, anti nuke lasers even stasis can save you from a ram ship. Then number one thing that will save you from instant kill. Map awareness. Killing them before they get to you.

  2. Personal opinion. Id never put warp on a tac or artilary ship. It's also a balance issue.

  3. I normally score top, I'm currently levelling a Blud. The slowest destroyer in the game. If a team is not going to counter those ships they will win.

  4. If you use flak right you will eat enemy ships. I can't count the amount of times flak has saved my life.
  5. I agree progression could be better, but it's not that bad imo.

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Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 11:23 a.m.



In regards to 3, I disagree. I usually add another module like a energy generator or armor boost depending on the class. While warp is definitely useful for some, like ramming Vindictas or slothen Jutlands, I cant tell you the number of times an enemy tried to warp away from me to survive, only for me to find them a few seconds later and finish them off.



Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 2:19 p.m.



Aetrion#4710 posted (#post-223962) said:

There are a couple huge design issues in this game that just suck the fun out of it, and that seem to simply get ignored. Maybe nobody has really put into words yet why these are so obnoxious, but I'm pretty sure that just about everyone who walked away from this game has noticed at least one of these ruining their fun.

  1. Way too many abilities that take away your ability to defend yourself. Scrambler Pulse, Drain Pulse, Disruptor Missile, these are basically full on in violation of what has been known in game design for decades: It's not fun to be unable to do anything. All by themselves these don't kill you, but when you get hit with them you are immediately helpless to defend yourself from any number of things that will.

  2. Way too many things that are basically an instakill. If you play any of the ships with lower health any number of things in the game will simply kill you outright if they ever hit you without your shield up. Too bad that your ability to put your shield up can be completely disabled by any number of things. There are way too many ships in this game that can rush in, score a kill in seconds and warp out. This is a game about giant spaceships, yet many of the ships in it get destroyed faster than you do in any fighter game.

  3. Speaking of warping out, the fact that warping isn't a standard module on all ships is absurd. This ability is so incredibly good that basically if your ship has an option for a warp drive in the 4 slot you are just punishing yourself by not taking it. There is nothing that comes even close to the utility of being able to teleport. Whether you're going after objectives, have to get out of a bad position, or want to attack your opponents flank, warping will get it done. Something this strong shouldn't be treated like its a choice.

  4. Balance is bad. I've been keeping track of who the top scorers are in the matches I'm in, and it's pretty much always people who use fast cruisers that have builds that exploit points 1 and 2 I made to their fullest. Charge in with Engine Rigger, hit people with Scramble or Drain pulses, then kill them with a plasma ram or storm missiles, then hit jump drive or thrust amplifier to get away. You just see this played out over and over and it's pretty much the calling card of anyone who ends the match with double digit kills. There is no real counterplay to this. Even if you have abilities that counter it, they can still get lucky and score a kill or go after someone else, while your ship is harmless for the rest of the match with its abilities selected for defense.

  5. Worthless secondary weapons. Seriously, what good is a defensive weapon with 700m range in this game? It's only use is to kill someone who's too stupid to just stay at 1km and laugh while they kill you. Does anyone know what a particle turret is good for? I sure couldn't find anyone. The few secondary weapons that actually seem kind of cool, like Heavy Mortars are squirreled away in Tier 5, where you won't get to use them given how few legendary matches happen, and where most people will never even reach before getting bored with all of this. There should be a large variety of actually useful secondaries for all ships. not just for Tier 5.

  6. Bad progression scheme. You never get the sense that you're progressing by using what you enjoy using and unlocking the things you want to unlock. Everything in this game is always unlocked around some corner where you have to use something completely unrelated. Like dreadnoughts? Well, to unlock all of them you're going to have to play tacs and cruisers. Want the briefing that's most useful for your ship? Oh well, we stashed that half way down tier 4 in a ship of a different class.

I feel like these things need to be addressed somehow. These are just all issues that take away the fun in the game, and don't make me want to put any money in it.

I'm at work, so I'll try to keep this short, but I would like to chime in on some of these:

  1. Fleet distribution and diversity can counter this. Strategy. A Tactical support can heal you through a Scramble if they are paying attention, knowing you're blind. Generally not a good idea to run off on your own, unless you are confident in your ability to get away quickly. Identify the culprit, keep your distance. Each ship has 2 loadouts, if you die, mix it up. This is a team tactical game, communication and fire support are everything. Solo running won't win games unless you can carry or communicate. Bots don't help the situation any, but I haven't found many bot games lately.

  2. Corvettes can do quite a bit of damage after disabling you, they should be able to die quickly. They are assassins tap and run, Tacticals would have no defense against a 30k HP Vette. Their low health allows us to pummel on them in hopes we can out heal/damage the incoming damage. As a Kosche fanatic, I'm okay with my low health, I have options/self-heals. I don't facetank dreadnoughts.

  3. Warp should be optional. I don't use it all the time, and I have no use for it all the time. It should use a module slot, to keep things balanced. There's no reason every ship should be able to warp around. The games would be over quickly as you could return to combat. It would be warp spamming after respawn. I don't see how this would do anything but ruin the tempo of combat.

  4. Ram can be avoided. I've danced around it plenty of times, again, pay attention to who is running what loadout. You can see where their warp destination is, situational awareness is everything. Send a Vette after them, strategize. Know they are on the field and counter it. They aren't invincible. Sure they'll get you once or twice, but once you realize the strategy, keep an eye out. They have module CDs too.

  5. As a Tactical, my secondary weapons are everything. Kosche, my main doesn't damage. I can one on one a Vette with my secondary and Tesla Probes/Repair Probes. I can tackle most ships and even drop a Command Ship with little effort given a couple reloads. They are secondary weapons, to be used during Primary Weapon reload times for most ships. My Corvette builds allow me to swap during Primary Weapon reload and continue to damage before swapping back.

  6. I found the ship progression tree allowed me to learn types I would otherwise not have put much time in. While I didn't neccessarily enjoy the play style of that specific class, I did learn combat strategy and module loadouts for them. It made me a better pilot in the classes I do enjoy.

Again, all these points are my preferences, just as they were yours.


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 4:50 p.m.



The Grind.

I am still trying to connect Dreadnought with Socialism. How would socialist Grind be like?


The community should not be afraid of the developers- The developers should be afraid of their community. carrier

^I want to believe^

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Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 5:44 p.m.


Updated //
July 25, 2018, 5:51 p.m.

I know that there are counters to all strategies in this game, the problem is that reactionary play is still at a significant disadvantage. The ability to instakill someone gets you kills at least some of the time, the ability to stop someone from instakilling you doesn't.

Let's say you have a combination of abilities that pretty much automatically produce a kill unless someone has the right abilities to counter them, you're going to always get free kills against people who can't counter it, you're going to get kills sometimes against people who fail to counter it, and you're getting a chance to escape from people who succeed to counter it, so you still have a huge advantage.

On the other hand, if you have a combination of abilities specifically to counter such a builds you're not going to produce any easy kills against anyone because you aren't using a counter or die build yourself, you can still fail to counter, and being set up to counter some things makes you vulnerable to others.

So, the mere existence of a counter doesn't balance the game. Any strategy that gives you a win when it works is always better than a strategy that just prevents a loss when it works. You can't win on the defensive unless you're luring your enemy into a trap, and "Haha, you thought you'd be able to simply instakill me but now you have to fight me" isn't a trap.

Also, I play Koschei, and it's just kind of awful to basically have the worlds biggest target painted on your ship, a mere 25000 health, so instakill for at least half a dozen abilities in the game, a 50000xp grindwall just to be allowed to attack anything that isn't so close you might as well break out the grappling hooks and go for a boarding action, and all that with the maneuverability of a beached whale. The heavy healing beam also really isn't a significant improvement over other healing ships in that department, because it has drastic falloff at range, so you have to get close enough to where you can start popping pods and autobeams, and with all that going the difference in healing output becomes marginal.


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 6:06 p.m.



Im currently levelling the Blud. The slowest destroyer out there. I can kill and survive the instant kill attack runs because of exsperiance, the right build, some skill/luck.

Now the Blud is slow but a bit of a tank. Use OB's like Retaliator, Get on my good side and slow and steady you have already increased your chances of survival. As taking damage from the side will give you back energy so you can bring your shields back up. Slow and steady adds damage reduction so you don't take as much damage as you should. Retaliator recharges your modules faster as long as your shields take damage.

The modules I use as storm missiles, flashet missiles, drain pulse and warp jump. I use warp to close distance or to escape. I always use drain pulse first then flashet so if any anti missile lasers are up they act as a screen for the storms. Then if needed I finish of the target with main guns or flak depending on the range to target.


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Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 6:43 p.m.



It seems to me that mass control skills such as those that disable modules and vision if they are somewhat exaggerated, it is useless to face a wave of several of these skills at the same time. getting to be almost 1 minute without being able to react.

Today this is the most efficient construction and it is the meta game, therefore, if there is an imbalance, which requires a revision to balance it, as MiguelItUp said after the steam launch, they will work on this, so it only remains wait.

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