FORUMS


The things that make this game not fun



Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 7:03 p.m.



Nexucor#3610 posted (#post-223988) said:

Today this is the most efficient construction and it is the meta game, therefore, if there is an imbalance, which requires a revision to balance it, as MiguelItUp said after the steam launch, they will work on this, so it only remains wait.

And believe me, we know the wait is hard. It's hard on us too, because we want to give all of you everything as soon as we can. We just want to make sure everything is as polished as can be before doing so.


Having any issues and need some assistance? Our support team would be more than happy to help! You can reach out to them here!

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Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 8:10 p.m.



Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-223986) said:

Im currently levelling the Blud. The slowest destroyer out there. I can kill and survive the instant kill attack runs because of exsperiance, the right build, some skill/luck.

That's not really comparable though, because a Koschei is even slower than a Blud, but has 20000 less HP, and a much less efficient shield.

I mean I played a Dola for a long time to get to the Koschei, and actually routinely do better in that, even though it's of a lower tier. So, playing a heavy tac cruiser really is just the bottom of the stack in terms of getting sealclubbed by cheesy abilities. You're too slow be able to get out of the way, you're too fragile to be able to tank it, and the more of your abilities go toward defense the less useful you are to your team.


Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 8:27 p.m.



Aetrion#4710 posted (#post-224004) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-223986) said:

Im currently levelling the Blud. The slowest destroyer out there. I can kill and survive the instant kill attack runs because of exsperiance, the right build, some skill/luck.

That's not really comparable though, because a Koschei is even slower than a Blud, but has 20000 less HP, and a much less efficient shield.

I mean I played a Dola for a long time to get to the Koschei, and actually routinely do better in that, even though it's of a lower tier. So, playing a heavy tac cruiser really is just the bottom of the stack in terms of getting sealclubbed by cheesy abilities. You're too slow be able to get out of the way, you're too fragile to be able to tank it, and the more of your abilities go toward defense the less useful you are to your team.

To be fair, I find them some of the harder to kill tac's, Normally because they have ships body guarding them, and they have the best healing out of all the tac's. You do need OB's though to make it trully shine. Before adrenalin shot was changed that ship never ran out of energy.


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Posted: //
July 25, 2018, 11:17 p.m.


Updated //
July 25, 2018, 11:18 p.m.

Aetrion#4710 posted (#post-223962) said:

There are a couple huge design issues in this game that just suck the fun out of it, and that seem to simply get ignored. Maybe nobody has really put into words yet why these are so obnoxious

I certainly have brought up some of these great points and I've been told in one way or another to git gud or that I can't aim or whatever.

So point #3 - MAKE WARP A STANDARD MODULE - actually you can drop the mic after this one and walk away. You are 100% correct here. I had a gameplay idea that I was going to post after the forum update. Basically I thought that there should be an auxilary set of modules that you have access to. There would be penalties and such for using them but the idea came to me when I realized I would never use anything in the 4th slot except for target warp on my Jutland/Monarch and I wondered why this would be the case for a ship the size of a small town. - we really can't fit a armor boost anywhere else on the ship? The Corvette's shield blocks 100% of damage but Jupiter Arms can't get Armor boost to play nice with the Warp drive...ok...

Regarding point 1.) - Scrambler is THE WORST IDEA for this type a game period. - Remove the player from the game for 6-10 seconds. This weapon is a joke and is the main reason you will not retain players. ( It is also STILL GLITCHED ON PS4 and turns OFF the energy wheel ) - I clearly remember the player and moment I was first hit with this module. This was 3+ months ago and I did rage quit that game. I do not feel as strongly about Drain or Disruptor ( even though Disruptor is probably the strongest of the 3 ) but I believe my reaction above adds to your point about modules that dull the game and keep it from being a fun experience

Now here's is what you might find intersting about "balance". So I see that you are mainly using the Kochei - this ship is downright horrible with the stock modules. But grind a bit and add Artillery Pods, Nuclear or Drain Mine, and Armored Lockdown. If you then add the hilariously strong Desperate Measure OB you may find that you then turn your little Kochei into a murder machine ( seriously, why is Desperate measures even in the game? )

In my opinion you are simply pointing out a lot of things that are undeniable facts and that is that the some of the problems with this game betray some kind of fundamental gameplay idea or betray the type of game that Dreadnought is being marketed as.


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 1:06 a.m.



Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-224005) said:

To be fair, I find them some of the harder to kill tac's, Normally because they have ships body guarding them, and they have the best healing out of all the tac's. You do need OB's though to make it trully shine. Before adrenalin shot was changed that ship never ran out of energy.

The briefings are another one of those things, unlocking them requires a MAJOR time investment into the game, and if it was well balanced it really wouldn't be such a drastic game changer.

Is it the hardest tac to kill? I suppose it has more HP than the others, and no tac is actually fast but none of them are actually hard to kill if nobody is protecting them IMO. Tactical cruisers move like they should be twice as big and have twice as much HP, like a military oiler or something like that.

I mean this goes back to me saying this game seems to ignore lessons that have been known in game design for decades. If something isn't a good idea in a fantasy MMORPG, like endless CC spam, huge speed differences between players, or healers that can be killed at will by enemy rogues then it isn't suddenly a good idea just because you're a spaceship game. In fact it's probably an even worse idea.

The notion of slow ships is also something I can't stand in games about ships. A slow ship is an obsolete ship. No navy would ever opt for a ship that only goes half as fast as the rest of them, no matter how nifty its other capabilities were. It would either slow the entire fleet down or fall behind, either way it would be a giant liability and would simply be scrapped in real life. For some reasons game designers like to throw things at the players that would be outright rejected by any military planner in reality though. Good luck balancing a game where you immediately introduce units that would be deemed unfit for service in any actual navy.


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 3:02 a.m.



Aetrion#4710 posted (#post-224008) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-224005) said:

To be fair, I find them some of the harder to kill tac's, Normally because they have ships body guarding them, and they have the best healing out of all the tac's. You do need OB's though to make it trully shine. Before adrenalin shot was changed that ship never ran out of energy.

The briefings are another one of those things, unlocking them requires a MAJOR time investment into the game, and if it was well balanced it really wouldn't be such a drastic game changer.

Is it the hardest tac to kill? I suppose it has more HP than the others, and no tac is actually fast but none of them are actually hard to kill if nobody is protecting them IMO. Tactical cruisers move like they should be twice as big and have twice as much HP, like a military oiler or something like that.

I mean this goes back to me saying this game seems to ignore lessons that have been known in game design for decades. If something isn't a good idea in a fantasy MMORPG, like endless CC spam, huge speed differences between players, or healers that can be killed at will by enemy rogues then it isn't suddenly a good idea just because you're a spaceship game. In fact it's probably an even worse idea.

The notion of slow ships is also something I can't stand in games about ships. A slow ship is an obsolete ship. No navy would ever opt for a ship that only goes half as fast as the rest of them, no matter how nifty its other capabilities were. It would either slow the entire fleet down or fall behind, either way it would be a giant liability and would simply be scrapped in real life. For some reasons game designers like to throw things at the players that would be outright rejected by any military planner in reality though. Good luck balancing a game where you immediately introduce units that would be deemed unfit for service in any actual navy.

the speed of the tactical cruises is fine, officer briefings is something that will change in the future, and dreadnought is science fiction, it is not real, it is what makes it great, and also makes it easier to balance, not depend on "a reality".


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 6:15 a.m.


Updated //
July 26, 2018, 6:19 a.m.

Aetrion#4710 posted (#post-223985) said:

I know that there are counters to all strategies in this game, the problem is that reactionary play is still at a significant disadvantage. The ability to instakill someone gets you kills at least some of the time, the ability to stop someone from instakilling you doesn't.

Let's say you have a combination of abilities that pretty much automatically produce a kill unless someone has the right abilities to counter them, you're going to always get free kills against people who can't counter it, you're going to get kills sometimes against people who fail to counter it, and you're getting a chance to escape from people who succeed to counter it, so you still have a huge advantage.

On the other hand, if you have a combination of abilities specifically to counter such a builds you're not going to produce any easy kills against anyone because you aren't using a counter or die build yourself, you can still fail to counter, and being set up to counter some things makes you vulnerable to others.

So, the mere existence of a counter doesn't balance the game. Any strategy that gives you a win when it works is always better than a strategy that just prevents a loss when it works. You can't win on the defensive unless you're luring your enemy into a trap, and "Haha, you thought you'd be able to simply instakill me but now you have to fight me" isn't a trap.

Also, I play Koschei, and it's just kind of awful to basically have the worlds biggest target painted on your ship, a mere 25000 health, so instakill for at least half a dozen abilities in the game, a 50000xp grindwall just to be allowed to attack anything that isn't so close you might as well break out the grappling hooks and go for a boarding action, and all that with the maneuverability of a beached whale. The heavy healing beam also really isn't a significant improvement over other healing ships in that department, because it has drastic falloff at range, so you have to get close enough to where you can start popping pods and autobeams, and with all that going the difference in healing output becomes marginal.

This is true - and it makes it so the best counter to super high burst damage is often just to kill them faster or kill their teammates faster than they can kill yours. I like to play gun boat Vigo against insta kill builds, since it almost always wins the duel. But my conclusion from a game design perspective would be to lower burst damage, not nerf the abilities that add depth to the game. For example nerf module amper and make plasma ram not ignore shields.

If you get constantly killed in the Koschei it probably isn't a good choice for this particular match. If I'd play Koschei I would only queue deathmatch, which gives the highest chance for this ship to be relevant. Also, reading the match flow at the start of the game from the player list alone is a useful skill to develop. Starting the game with the right ship is a huge advantage. Of course, some ships are almost never a bad choice (like insta kill Vindicta build), but they can be. You need to make the call what will give you the best chance to win the match - counter strong ships of the enemy or try to match them. Both choices can be viable.


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 11:07 a.m.



Nexucor#3610 posted (#post-224011) said: dreadnought is science fiction, it is not real, it is what makes it great, and also makes it easier to balance, not depend on "a reality".

I think you missed my point. It's not an argument that it should be a certain way because of reality, it's an argument that putting something that is so disastrously flawed that no organization that engages in real combat accepts it in a game means it will be just as awful there, so the players should reject it just as much as a real fighting force would.

NoInfinity#8163 posted (#post-224020) said: If you get constantly killed in the Koschei it probably isn't a good choice for this particular match. If I'd play Koschei I would only queue deathmatch, which gives the highest chance for this ship to be relevant.

That's still basically saying the ship is underpowered. You should be able to effectively play a ship in any match, otherwise the game balance just isn't where it should be.


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 2:57 p.m.



The game has many things that no one would ever do. They got added to force you into certain playstyles and to balance the ships.

Why would you put short range guns on the slowest ship avaiable? Welcome to DN!

Regarding your Koschei, you bring five ships with ten loadouts to a battle. Not just one ship. So the game actually might create situations where your chosen ship is simply lacking the correct loadout.


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
July 26, 2018, 4:02 p.m.



If I play a Dola or a Chernobog I only need one ship and loadout to be effective, if that isn't true for other ships then they are broken.

For that matter, if it's a game where you have to switch ships and loadouts to be effective having to unlock them would mean you're forced to queue for battles in a state that will hurt your team for several weeks, if not months before you actually have a full top tier fleet.

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