FORUMS


My New Player Feedback (1 Week in Open Beta): Too Much Grind



Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 3:17 a.m.



So I have only been playing Dreadnaught for a few days now. The first few hours were highly addicting, the game is amazing as a new player. I particularly enjoyed trying to figure out which ship-types that best suit my playstyle. And once I found the ship that I like, it was a lot of fun to keep using it to enhance my skill and buy upgrades.

But here is the problem, the addicting gameplay wears off quickly after realizing how much time and effort it takes to upgrade Tier IV ships above. A casual gamer would never play the game long enough to acquire a Tier V ship, much less upgrade a Tier IV ship. I thought I was hallucinating when I saw upgrades costing up to 55,000 XP in Tier IV, I've been playing this game a lot but I don't have that kind of time for farming XP for one upgrade.

The amount of grinding that is required in this game is unreasonable and discouraging as a new player, because only dedicated hardcore gamers would put in the time to continue grinding to max out a Tier IV or Tier V ship.

The gameplay itself is obviously casual since the matches are short and the objective is simple. So when you mix hardcore progession with casual gameplay, it will kill the playerbase because most players are not going to want to spend all day grinding for a ship or an upgrade; that is not why people play a game like this.

I'm the type of player that has no problem investing money in microtransactions for in-game benefit, and I have already bought a Founder's Pack and several cosmetic items. But the grinding in Dreadnought is so drastic that even with Elite Status activated I don't feel encouraged to pour in the hours just to acquire the ship that I want to play.

It just feels like a chore to grind for upgrades and ships in this game, it is the worst aspect of Dreadnought.

This game does have A LOT of potential and I will continue to Beta Test it, but I seriously hope that the upgrade requirements change. I have seen a lot of similiar games and space dogfighters become vaporware because of the same fatal mistake-- TOO MUCH GRIND.

I used to play Dead Stear on Steam but the developers killed their playerbase since they wouldn't change the in-game progression requirements. I cannot emphasize enough that a game like this cannot survive with only a hardcore player community; therefore, Ship Upgrades and accesibility to Higher Tier ships need too be much more attainable, unless you want the matchmaking servers to be empty most of the time, because that is exactly what happens when the casual players go away.

So just to summarize: I do not like the amount of grinding in Dreadnought and I do not like being forced to play or upgrade ships that I have absolutely no interest in flying. If I want a Tier IV Destroyer, then I shouldn't have to pour time and energy into upgrading an Artillery Cruiser or a Corvette, things like that take the fun right out of the game. I am a min-maxer, I only want to invest in the ship that I actually want to specialize in.

I truly want this game to be exceptional, so here are my suggestions as a new player:

  • Significantly decrease upgrade costs and progression requirements for at least Tier IV and Tier V ships.
  • Change XP gain so that Players can efffectively use any ship they want to farm upgrades for higher tier ships.
  • Change ship unlock requirements so that Players do not have to upgrade or claim ships that they do not want to play.

Thanks, I hope this feedback is helpful.

-Veilsword


Pillage Pilfer Plunder Pirate


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 3:47 a.m.



This is kind of the well established genre business model, with grind times frankly vastly lower than in, say, WoT. I mean, you can easily reach T4 stock in one big day of matches. I already have six. Considering T5 is a myth and virtually all games occur in vet, spending a second and then third long day to get 4 modules and a weapon and then basically hitting apex ship strength is pretty... modest, is it not?


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 4:06 a.m.



Veilsword#0181 posted (#post-224195) said:

So I have only been playing Dreadnaught for a few days now. The first few hours were highly addicting, the game is amazing as a new player. I particularly enjoyed trying to figure out which ship-types that best suit my playstyle. And once I found the ship that I like, it was a lot of fun to keep using it to enhance my skill and buy upgrades.

But here is the problem, the addicting gameplay wears off quickly after realizing how much time and effort it takes to upgrade Tier IV ships above. A casual gamer would never play the game long enough to acquire a Tier V ship, much less upgrade a Tier IV ship. I thought I was hallucinating when I saw upgrades costing up to 55,000 XP in Tier IV, I've been playing this game a lot but I don't have that kind of time for farming XP for one upgrade.

The amount of grinding that is required in this game is unreasonable and discouraging as a new player, because only dedicated hardcore gamers would put in the time to continue grinding to max out a Tier IV or Tier V ship.

The gameplay itself is obviously casual since the matches are short and the objective is simple. So when you mix hardcore progession with casual gameplay, it will kill the playerbase because most players are not going to want to spend all day grinding for a ship or an upgrade; that is not why people play a game like this.

I'm the type of player that has no problem investing money in microtransactions for in-game benefit, and I have already bought a Founder's Pack and several cosmetic items. But the grinding in Dreadnought is so drastic that even with Elite Status activated I don't feel encouraged to pour in the hours just to acquire the ship that I want to play.

It just feels like a chore to grind for upgrades and ships in this game, it is the worst aspect of Dreadnought.

This game does have A LOT of potential and I will continue to Beta Test it, but I seriously hope that the upgrade requirements change. I have seen a lot of similiar games and space dogfighters become vaporware because of the same fatal mistake-- TOO MUCH GRIND.

I used to play Dead Stear on Steam but the developers killed their playerbase since they wouldn't change the in-game progression requirements. I cannot emphasize enough that a game like this cannot survive with only a hardcore player community; therefore, Ship Upgrades and accesibility to Higher Tier ships need too be much more attainable, unless you want the matchmaking servers to be empty most of the time, because that is exactly what happens when the casual players go away.

So just to summarize: I do not like the amount of grinding in Dreadnought and I do not like being forced to play or upgrade ships that I have absolutely no interest in flying. If I want a Tier IV Destroyer, then I shouldn't have to pour time and energy into upgrading an Artillery Cruiser or a Corvette, things like that take the fun right out of the game. I am a min-maxer, I only want to invest in the ship that I actually want to specialize in.

I truly want this game to be exceptional, so here are my suggestions as a new player:

  • Significantly decrease upgrade costs and progression requirements for at least Tier IV and Tier V ships.
  • Change XP gain so that Players can efffectively use any ship they want to farm upgrades for higher tier ships.
  • Change ship unlock requirements so that Players do not have to upgrade or claim ships that they do not want to play.

Thanks, I hope this feedback is helpful.

-Veilsword

Although I am not playing this game casually I can totally understand your concern. This was discussed in the forums a lot lately. As there are lots of dreadnought players who don't play this casually, drastically lowering the research costs would take away the content for them.

I have unlocked almost all tier 4 ships and a couple of modules on them after 60 hours in total of playing this game. If there would be lower costs there would be lots of players having unlocked everything in the game, which would result in them stopping to play because there's no more content yet.(no clanbattles no custom battles)

Unfortunately the devs can't make this grind enjoyable for everyone. Im not saying the grind is perfect. It just has to be tweaked a little bit in some place.


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 10:20 a.m.



The "grind" is something our team continues to assess, as well as balance, and over all progression flow. If adjustments are to be made it will be some time after the Steam launch. But we'll continue to keep our ear to the ground. We appreciate the feedback!


Having any issues and need some assistance? Our support team would be more than happy to help! You can reach out to them here!

Miguel "MiguelItUp" Rial - Six Foot Player Relations Specialist


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 10:46 a.m.



As a casual player it's not too bad once you get use to how the game works.

I've played for a year and 2 months. I have every T4 unlocked, and 7 T5's.


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Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 11:17 a.m.



@Veilsword

Don't want to be negative but this must be your first Online Game. This type of grind is a normal business Model as @Dr_Hatari said.

To me i think its fine. Take time to learn and appreciate the game. Making things to easy might brake the game. Seen it happen before. People complain its to hard, so the devs make things easier then players complain its to easy so the devs put things back and so on.

Especially when players want it to have easier grind and rush through the tiers and reach a high tier and fight pros then complain its to hard when they go in with no gear going up against players who are geared up.

Constant Facepalm moments. Seen it happen all the time way to often. The Game is fine the way it is.


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 4:25 p.m.


Updated //
Aug. 1, 2018, 4:26 p.m.

Many have commented on the grind, hopefully with more numbers possibly joining at the Steam launch, it will be a great opportunity for Greybox to track the numbers that join and then the point that some choose to leave.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is when the players have had a little time in a Tier III ship facing Tier IVs, try to assess how they may progress and get to a place where they have a balanced/even chance, and then eyeball just how long that will take to achieve lol.


Posted: //
Aug. 1, 2018, 8:10 p.m.



I fully agree with Veilsworth. I believe that you are working on the Grind, but nothing really changes. I keep my fingers crossed and wait. I got the Tier V Ship I wanted, since I found out about DN. I am satisfied.


The community should not be afraid of the developers- The developers should be afraid of their community. carrier

^I want to believe^

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Posted: //
Aug. 2, 2018, 9:03 a.m.


Updated //
Aug. 2, 2018, 9:08 a.m.

@Dhu3M

My first Online Game? It is not wise to make sweeping generalizations like that without knowing anything about a person. I am 35 and I grew on PC, Atari, Nintendo, and yes even online games that require a lot more patience and energy than today's games do. My first computer was a Tandy 1000 if you even know what that is, so my feedback is based on growing up as a hardcore gamer and playing just about every kind of game that there is. So I say from decades of experience that modern games need to tone it down with the grinding because it is no longer effective for growing and maintaining a player-base in a society that is much more fast-paced and more interested in skill-based gameplay without the unnecessarly forced in-game progression that stifles competitive players from using whatever ship or character that they want to use.

You can disagree with me, but don't pretend that you know what my background is without any sort of educated analysis to back it up, because that sort of arrogant criticism is simply a mark of ignorance and small-mindedness. I came to these forums to provide my honest feedback as a new player, so there is no need to respond with a childish demeanor.

D h U 3 M#9851 posted (#post-224256) said:

@Veilsword

Don't want to be negative but this must be your first Online Game. This type of grind is a normal business Model as @Dr_Hatari said.

To me i think its fine. Take time to learn and appreciate the game. Making things to easy might brake the game. Seen it happen before. People complain its to hard, so the devs make things easier then players complain its to easy so the devs put things back and so on.

Especially when players want it to have easier grind and rush through the tiers and reach a high tier and fight pros then complain its to hard when they go in with no gear going up against players who are geared up.

Constant Facepalm moments. Seen it happen all the time way to often. The Game is fine the way it is.


Pillage Pilfer Plunder Pirate


Posted: //
Aug. 2, 2018, 10:08 a.m.



Let's not get personal folks.


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