FORUMS


Lopsided games and tier-mismatched battles



Posted: //
Aug. 8, 2018, 4:50 p.m.


Updated //
Aug. 9, 2018, 1:30 a.m.

I really don't understand how this makes any sense... why are T3 ships allowed to take part in combat vs T4s? Just now I was in a battle where two T4s from the enemy team basically did to our team whatever they pleased and wiped the floor with our corpses (metaphorically speaking).

It wasn't fun, it didn't feel fair. HOW is this fair to begin with?

I used to think this mismatch was fine... because T1s are easy to replace with T2s and I spent so much time in Rookie Queue with everyone flying T2s. But the grind to T4 from T3 is very real and feels very pointless. Coupled with the above, it feels like this is the main place where the game will try to squeeze out money from players. That, or get them to leave. Given how much players (myself included) hate the idea of "pay 2 win" this doesn't feel like a good design.

EDIT: I've just had a lengthy (friendly) discussion on the Dreadnought Discord channel about this. I think it's pretty clear that imbalance is built into the game, with how ship tiers are mixed at the moment. And as I wrote above, this is where the game tries to make money. This might not be as bad a case of P2W as certain other games, but the problem is that perception of P2W is enough to tarnish the reputation and drive people away. And I think players will pick up on this fairly quickly, as over the past number of years we, as gamers, have been getting “inoculated” by ever more greedy business practises employed by developers / publishers. If the devs want this game to be popular, then I feel they need to make a great game first and foremost (this includes making it a balanced one), and money will surely follow. If accusations of P2W and extended grind start to appear, the only defence is that this is a F2P game, but I'd argue there's only a relatively small subset of players who are interested in that kind of game.


Posted: //
Aug. 8, 2018, 6:39 p.m.



I cant say that Ive dealt with this issue much in my grind from tier 3 to 4, but I have seen it nevertheless.

I think that a good solution would be to restrict Veteran to tier 3 only. Leave the tier 4s and 5s to Legendary. The jump in power from tier 3 to tier 4 is pretty massive as compared to say 4 to 5. Tier 4s have no problem hanging with 5s in Legendary. It all comes down to teamwork in the end. Plus, the Legendary wait times would drop significantly.

Veteran should be an introduction to some of the late-tier gameplay and modules that you get in tiers 4 and 5, though I also think that people should spend more time unlocking tier 3 ships before they make the jump to Veteran to begin with in order to at least give them a wider choice of classes to play in case their team needs a certain ship type.


Posted: //
Aug. 8, 2018, 7:32 p.m.



The gap between T3 and T4 is an issue, but T3 can hang with T4. It forces you to learn the games nuances but it can defi itely be frustrating. Im fine with T3 being with T4, but they should close the gap since T3s dont play T2s so that gap isnt an issue.



Posted: //
Aug. 8, 2018, 9:51 p.m.



It is also likely that those T4s were squaded- especially depending on the clan, some of these squads can be quite, how should I put it, aware of the fact that they are exploiting the system.

I wont go into P2W because you know my stance from the discord you can have your opinions but let me have mine

If the devs are listening, though, I think a BIG step in the right direction would be bringing OBs back down to T3. Many of the imbalance complaints began once they moved them up to T4, and I do not think that is a coincidence.


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Posted: //
Aug. 8, 2018, 10:51 p.m.



There needs to be a lock on veteran of ulocking all T3 ships first. Going to veteran with 10 hours of game time is a bad idea. You will be up against people with hundreds of hours under there belts.

You can't play like you did in recruit. Your team needs to stick together and support each other. T3's can do just as well as T4's fresh out the box. Just need game exsperiance so the power gap is not exaggerated.


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Posted: //
Aug. 9, 2018, 1:35 a.m.



SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-224483) said:

The gap between T3 and T4 is an issue, but T3 can hang with T4. It forces you to learn the games nuances but it can defi itely be frustrating. Im fine with T3 being with T4, but they should close the gap since T3s dont play T2s so that gap isnt an issue.

I don't disagree that such an imbalance is good for learning, HOWEVER it's also very frustrating when there's even ONE enemy ship you can't do anything about. People will either get frustrated and leave (might also throw those accusations of P2W I mentioned) or pay up. A certain subset will grind on through this.

The last set of people will likely end up being very good at the game in the end, true. But if the cost is a lot of people laving the game and the game getting a bad rep, then is it worth it?


Posted: //
Aug. 9, 2018, 1:50 a.m.



UNYU - Hypervolt#4192 posted (#post-224484) said:

I wont go into P2W because you know my stance from the discord you can have your opinions but let me have mine

If I remember correctly, you think this isn't P2W at all - and I can certainly see the reasoning. But I'd also argue that there are shades of P2W mechanics, and they are not all created equal - the common denominator, IMHO, is that "under certain conditions a player who spends money has a mechanical advantage over a player who did not". Of course, there are cases where it's more blatant, where you can buy magic bullets that straight up give you an advantage. That would be the worst kind of P2W possible, and DN isn't nowhere near as bad of course. But progression-based games where said progression gives mechanical perks (as opposed to cosmetic unlocks) coupled with a paid-mechanism to skip / speed up said progression... well, that's a slippery slope. Add to this extensive built-in grind times and accusations are sure to fly.

If the game wishes to be perceived as a good F2P game where skills matter the most then it should avoid these grey areas as much as possible.


Posted: //
Aug. 9, 2018, 2:15 a.m.



This game is pay to progress. You get a time limited advantage over those who don't as they will catch up.


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Posted: //
Aug. 9, 2018, 2:56 a.m.



The difference has been acknowledged on these forums, it has been experienced by many and it has led to some leaving the game.

I can only assume this is Greybox drawing the line and saying we do not intend to change this as this is indeed the point where we expect people to spend money.

Although it was indicated 'wait for the Steam' release in a thread discussing the Tier III - IV balance issues; I did notice in a later thread that something along the lines of 'in future, after the Steam release' was mentioned.

This is why I believe the balance issues between tier III and IV will not be addressed, period.


Posted: //
Aug. 9, 2018, 3:23 a.m.


Updated //
Aug. 9, 2018, 3:28 a.m.

WaveRider#4219 posted (#post-224494) said:

The difference has been acknowledged on these forums, it has been experienced by many and it has led to some leaving the game.

I can only assume this is Greybox drawing the line and saying we do not intend to change this as this is indeed the point where we expect people to spend money.

Although it was indicated 'wait for the Steam' release in a thread discussing the Tier III - IV balance issues; I did notice in a later thread that something along the lines of 'in future, after the Steam release' was mentioned.

This is why I believe the balance issues between tier III and IV will not be addressed, period.

Thats because the problem is experience over power difference. I made a new account, got a fresh T3, went and played Veteran. This was the result.

https://image.ibb.co/jGDArU/what_a_fresh_T3_can_do.png

As you can see I got the same K/D/A as the T4 above me, his score was a little better probably dew to a ribbon. I did well because I have game knowledge, the lack of knowledge and people rushing to Veteran make the problem seem worse than it really is.

Add in a lot of the T4 plaeyers have hundreds of hours under there belts, and low player count only adds to the problem.


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