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Conquest Unfairly Favors Fast Ships



Posted: //
Aug. 18, 2018, 9:08 p.m.



Hello DN community! I`ve spent a pretty significant amount of time playing in the new Conquest mode and I wanted to drop my two cents on it. Some of this has probably been said, but here goes anyway.

I believe that this mode gives a distinct advantage to fast ship classes like Corvettes and destroyers like the Vindicta. The sheer amount of ground that these vessels can cover in a short amount of time means that they will always be the first to capture either the A or B point. The absurd rate at which Corvettes can cap means that only the fastest ships even have a sliver of hope of getting some of those points as well. Sitting in a circle for a few seconds nets you 500 points; an obscene reward for almost no effort. This doesn`t even take into account the fact that doing this 3-4 times nets you a further 700 points thanks the Conqueror ribbon. Since the points change hands frequently due to Corvettes simply flying back and forth between objectives, their scores are padded quickly. This leaves the slower ships to do what? Move up and engage the enemy team, sure, but considering how little you get for kills and other combat actions, these players will never have as much of an opportunity to have high scoring games. Since score is related to XP gain, this mode unfairly rewards the fast ships in comparison to their slower brethren.

I believe that this is reflected in the absolutely ridiculous numbers of corvettes and Vindictas that will appear in any given Conquest match as compared to any other ship. It has not been unusual for me to see at least 3 Vindis and 2+ corvettes per team. This is a meta that cannot be ignored and the scores are often expectedly skewed, with all of the top scorers in those fast ships. I can score over 3500 points per game in my Vindicta by occasionally capping points, killing a few enemies, and mostly just exerting control over the battlefield. Trying the same thing in a slower Dreadnought or Destroyer just does not seem as likely and you would have to work much harder to achieve the same results. I have fun in those games, but I can imagine people grinding their slower ships will not share my enjoyment. Sure I can strongpoint the middle of the map and control it in my Jutland or Monarch, but even with that my score will most likely always be lower than the fast ships continuously capping points.

Anyway that`s all I have for now. Feel free to discuss and hopefully the Devs will see this.

Cheers and good luck out there, Captains!


Posted: //
Aug. 18, 2018, 9:18 p.m.



^ Not going to type out a biography but generally I agree. The slower ships have trouble making points/xp. Perhaps decrease the cap points by a small amout, and give a point bonus for strongpointing a sector.


Posted: //
Aug. 18, 2018, 9:28 p.m.



Sovereign_Praetor#8062 posted (#post-224789) said:

Hello DN community! I`ve spent a pretty significant amount of time playing in the new Conquest mode and I wanted to drop my two cents on it. Some of this has probably been said, but here goes anyway.

I believe that this mode gives a distinct advantage to fast ship classes like Corvettes and destroyers like the Vindicta. The sheer amount of ground that these vessels can cover in a short amount of time means that they will always be the first to capture either the A or B point. The absurd rate at which Corvettes can cap means that only the fastest ships even have a sliver of hope of getting some of those points as well. Sitting in a circle for a few seconds nets you 500 points; an obscene reward for almost no effort. This doesn`t even take into account the fact that doing this 3-4 times nets you a further 700 points thanks the Conqueror ribbon. Since the points change hands frequently due to Corvettes simply flying back and forth between objectives, their scores are padded quickly. This leaves the slower ships to do what? Move up and engage the enemy team, sure, but considering how little you get for kills and other combat actions, these players will never have as much of an opportunity to have high scoring games. Since score is related to XP gain, this mode unfairly rewards the fast ships in comparison to their slower brethren.

I believe that this is reflected in the absolutely ridiculous numbers of corvettes and Vindictas that will appear in any given Conquest match as compared to any other ship. It has not been unusual for me to see at least 3 Vindis and 2+ corvettes per team. This is a meta that cannot be ignored and the scores are often expectedly skewed, with all of the top scorers in those fast ships. I can score over 3500 points per game in my Vindicta by occasionally capping points, killing a few enemies, and mostly just exerting control over the battlefield. Trying the same thing in a slower Dreadnought or Destroyer just does not seem as likely and you would have to work much harder to achieve the same results. I have fun in those games, but I can imagine people grinding their slower ships will not share my enjoyment. Sure I can strongpoint the middle of the map and control it in my Jutland or Monarch, but even with that my score will most likely always be lower than the fast ships continuously capping points.

Anyway that`s all I have for now. Feel free to discuss and hopefully the Devs will see this.

Cheers and good luck out there, Captains!

As you said- most of this has been stated before as such, the conquest gamemode's scoring system (as well as the game's scoring for all the modes) is being reworked before steam, if I recall correctly.

Now that that is out of the way- I wanna give my two cents as well:

I want to start with a disclaimer- I am not the most competative, I could honestly care less about score. I think I want you to know this because I think you are saying the gamemode favors fast ships in terms of the scoreboard, rather than in terms of gameplay- which I do agree with almost 100%- capturing control points offers a little too much credit I will agree.

However- in terms of gameplay, that is a corvette's job. Trust me when I tell you from experience, corvettes are almost useless in conquest after the first minute or so, unless your team is desperate for a control point. The way the game works, you are required to have control points to maintain territory, but NOT to claim it. That being said, plop an arty on your control point and you should be relatively solid. I sometimes claim a point at the beginning of the game by entering as a corvette, but will switch after I (inevitably) die

And heres the thing- the faster a ship is, the less territory it can gain. It might seem at first like faster=more territory, but the massive radius on some of the slower ships easilly compensates for speed. I see people all the time who can capture almost the entire map just by warping into the middle with a jutland. It is also important to note that you need to be within range of a friendly ship in order to maintain territory, meaning faster ships have the disadvantage of wandering off and claiming no territory whatsoever. Now might be a good time to mention that corvettes already don't claim territory at all.

TLDR: IMO the gameplay is fine just the way it is, faster ships have their weaknesses. But yes, scoring could use an update (which it is getting soon)


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Posted: //
Aug. 19, 2018, 1:21 a.m.



Arty cruisers are also almost completely useless in this mode. IMO, they should have a significantly larger control radius but weakened ability to contest it, such that they can hold backline territory easily but will have their control easily disrupted by a more powerful ship closing in on them.


Posted: //
Aug. 19, 2018, 1:49 a.m.


Updated //
Aug. 19, 2018, 1:50 a.m.

depending on the size of ship you can capture more ground of the map then just the A/B points. as long as your team can dedicate maybe 1-2 ships to defend, its best to have th other 6 form a pretty spaced out formation to cover the map in your color. only thing vettes can do is capture points since they do not have the ability to capture any area other then those exact specific points. arties are still useful providing pressure to keep the other team huddled in one area and not spreading around to capture more ground. I mostly play vette for the exact reason that most don't bother to defend therefore i start farming up those points while i check the board for any emeny vettes in play so that way i can be aware that there will be other vettes with the same mentality and should be ready to counter them asap.


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Posted: //
Aug. 19, 2018, 8:22 a.m.



How good the slow ships will do depends very heavily on the map. On Kappa Base, the smallest CQ map, Dreadnoughts rule supreme, whereas on Ixion, it takes a lot of time to get to a (only temporarily) relevant position.


Posted: //
Aug. 20, 2018, 1:10 p.m.



Conquest is still a fairly new mode, so do keep that in mind. We've mentioned it in the past, but our teams still plan to tweak and improve the experience in due time.


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Posted: //
Aug. 23, 2018, 3:51 p.m.



DN_MiguelItUp#0468 posted (#post-224836) said:

Conquest is still a fairly new mode, so do keep that in mind. We've mentioned it in the past, but our teams still plan to tweak and improve the experience in due time.

I'd like to add that there are players that actually enjoy the mode as it is! Just provide some more queue options, so people that don't like it can avoid it. The mode tends to favour fast ships, but I for one like the dynamics of Conquest very much.


Posted: //
Sept. 10, 2018, 9:22 a.m.



I personally don't like conquest the way it is. The way points are rewarded is completely off. I've played a lot of conquest games in the last week while either defending with a heavie or capping points with a corvette. Just flying back and forth between A and B with my corvette got me more than 4K points easily. Spending the entire match protecting my point with a DN and not losing it once while swatting away scores of corvettes got me 680 points.

Slower ships have little hope of capping points and defending a point just isn't rewarding at all so few people bother with it. This kind of makes the whole capture and HOLD purpose of conquest...........well, pointless.


Posted: //
Sept. 10, 2018, 9:32 a.m.



madhamster#2448 posted (#post-225261) said:

I personally don't like conquest the way it is. The way points are rewarded is completely off. I've played a lot of conquest games in the last week while either defending with a heavie or capping points with a corvette. Just flying back and forth between A and B with my corvette got me more than 4K points easily. Spending the entire match protecting my point with a DN and not losing it once while swatting away scores of corvettes got me 680 points.

Slower ships have little hope of capping points and defending a point just isn't rewarding at all so few people bother with it. This kind of makes the whole capture and HOLD purpose of conquest...........well, pointless.

Slower ships are not meant to sit on points.

Each ship paints a part of the map, besides the Corvettes, the slower and heavier you are, the more area you paint. So a Dread or Heavy Destroyer sitting on a point is doing it wrong. You are meant to sit away from points, in the open area to "paint" it. A heavy Dread paints as much area as a control point does.

The scoring however needs some more work, painting does not get rewarded well enough imho.


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