I'm talking going from T4 to T5. That was probably the biggest mistake I've made on T5. Upgrades are supposed to be better. Not worse. A 9% damage reduction increase is not enough to compensate on the huge armor amp duration reduction when upgrading the T4 mod to T5.

Not sure if this is the same on PC.

It is the same on PC. There is going to be a big balance update for steam launch on PC. So keep an eye out for it to see what modules will be changed, and if any are "fixed".

This is probably my only real gripe with the whole game. I've just started upgrading my T5 Zmey and T5 'Amour' Amplifier is worse than T4. In fact, the T2 / T3 versions (80% for 15s / 85% for 12.5s) are even better.

If you're being targetted for a full minute (which is the entire point of the Dread) and firing it at every cooldown, you'd take less damage with the low tier verions than the upgrades...

Trappygit#7857 posted (#post-225531) said:

This is probably my only real gripe with the whole game. I've just started upgrading my T5 Zmey and T5 'Amour' Amplifier is worse than T4. In fact, the T2 / T3 versions (80% for 15s / 85% for 12.5s) are even better.

Not really, with the T4 AA, and the OB slow and steady, you can be imune to all in coming damage whatle AA is up, and with Retaliator and get on my goodside, you can cut the cool down time quite alot if you use Armor boost pulseand shields togethere to speed up the cool down of AA.

If you're being targetted for a full minute (which is the entire point of the Dread) and firing it at every cooldown, you'd take less damage with the low tier verions than the upgrades...

As I've said above, thats not really true.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-225546) said:

Trappygit#7857 posted (#post-225531) said:

This is probably my only real gripe with the whole game. I've just started upgrading my T5 Zmey and T5 'Amour' Amplifier is worse than T4. In fact, the T2 / T3 versions (80% for 15s / 85% for 12.5s) are even better.

Not really, with the T4 AA, and the OB slow and steady, you can be imune to all in coming damage whatle AA is up, and with Retaliator and get on my goodside, you can cut the cool down time quite alot if you use Armor boost pulseand shields togethere to speed up the cool down of AA.

If you're being targetted for a full minute (which is the entire point of the Dread) and firing it at every cooldown, you'd take less damage with the low tier verions than the upgrades...

As I've said above, thats not really true.

That's true, but it assumes a lot of investment in other abilities to make it better. If you don't take them, then you agree that it's worse? It really should be better alone or along with other Modules and Officer Briefings.

Also, what about the T5 version being worse then the T4 then? If I understnd this right, with Slow and Steady, it's redundant off the bat...

How exactly does 'Retaliator' work? I can't find any details on the actual cooldown reduction is delivers and how often it can deliver it. This is pretty fundamental - I suspect the lower tier'd abilities will become even more effective than the higher with it factored in...

II - 15s of 90% reduction with CD of 35s - ?? Retalitor 'procs'

III - 12.5s of 95% reduction with CD of 30s - ?? Retalitor 'procs'

IV - 10s of 100% (100%) reduction with CD of 25s - ?? Retalitor 'procs'

V - 5s of 109% (100%) reduction with CD of 20s - ?? Retalitor 'procs'

Retaliator is linked to damage taken to the shield, full damage not the reduced value that bleeds through. Each class has its own Retaliator value.

For Dreads its 0.48s / 1k damage to the shields, per module, so a possible total of 4x0.48s = 1.92s cd reduction per 1k damage to the shield.

Now 1k damage is not a lot. So lets look at a base T4 Goliath, direct impact, no module amper, at 20k damage, this means 20x 0.48s = 9.6s of cd reduction per module, with a "bleed" through of 7k damage to the hull.

Summed up: Don't shoot Dreads if you see a green clock symbol in their buff list when they take damage to the shields. You will just help them spam their modules like crazy.

Trappygit#7857 posted (#post-225555) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-225546) said:

Trappygit#7857 posted (#post-225531) said:

This is probably my only real gripe with the whole game. I've just started upgrading my T5 Zmey and T5 'Amour' Amplifier is worse than T4. In fact, the T2 / T3 versions (80% for 15s / 85% for 12.5s) are even better.

Not really, with the T4 AA, and the OB slow and steady, you can be imune to all in coming damage whatle AA is up, and with Retaliator and get on my goodside, you can cut the cool down time quite alot if you use Armor boost pulseand shields togethere to speed up the cool down of AA.

If you're being targetted for a full minute (which is the entire point of the Dread) and firing it at every cooldown, you'd take less damage with the low tier verions than the upgrades...

As I've said above, thats not really true.

That's true, but it assumes a lot of investment in other abilities to make it better. If you don't take them, then you agree that it's worse? It really should be better alone or along with other Modules and Officer Briefings.

Also, what about the T5 version being worse then the T4 then? If I understnd this right, with Slow and Steady, it's redundant off the bat...

Yes T5 AA is really not worth taking in its current form. In my personal view T4 is perfect. Also you do need a lot invested in other abilities to make most modules "better"

Jawayne#8001 posted (#post-225561) said:

Retaliator is linked to damage taken to the shield, full damage not the reduced value that bleeds through. Each class has its own Retaliator value.

For Dreads its 0.48s / 1k damage to the shields, per module, so a possible total of 4x0.48s = 1.92s cd reduction per 1k damage to the shield.

Now 1k damage is not a lot. So lets look at a base T4 Goliath, direct impact, no module amper, at 20k damage, this means 20x 0.48s = 9.6s of cd reduction per module, with a "bleed" through of 7k damage to the hull.

Summed up: Don't shoot Dreads if you see a green clock symbol in their buff list when they take damage to the shields. You will just help them spam their modules like crazy.

Excellent post, thank you for that! Where would I find values for other ships?

I'd like to pick your brains one last time if I may: How much damage do shields absorb on different ships? I can't believe this sort of information isn't available in-game, let alone on the internet...

you can find the damage reduction of shields when hovering over a ship in the tech tree- if i'm remembering correctly, they are as follows:

corvettes: 100% (very high energy reduction) destroyers: 75% artillery: 80% tactical: 80% dreadnought: 65% (do bot lose energy when attacked)

those numbers are probably way off though so dont quote me on that. if i were at my computer i would check, maybe i will come back and update this post