SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-227291) said:

saying you need two specific modules, which players may not have loaded out or even own, in order win is a perfect example of imbalance.

No, I gave an exsample of two modules that stop my dread from being able to take as much punishment as it can under "normal" conditions. People need to stop playing pewpew builds like they should beat everything, because they could in recruit, and learn the game. We have 2 loadouts per ship for a reason. We have purge, disrupt, drain, stasis for a reason.

"But I don't have it" is not an argument for unbalanced. At best it's because the game dose not teach players early on the importance of these modules, at worst it's because people cant/won't adapt there play style, and throw salt because someone else did.

So my Tier 3 Chernblog that I just started on and dont have those modules to use on it, it stll falls on me? Um, no. I dont even have anything to make a second build, so saying its not an excuse is flat out wrong.

While I agree you have to know the game, there are other factors at work. what good is my stasis/disrupt missile if it misses? what if i got disrupted/drained and only have main cannons to fall back on? youre argument is partially predicated on players always having things ready.

The fact is, when vettes get in close they just decimate other ships. A dread is supposed to be the most dangerous to get close to and its not. The fact that so many players have issues taking down vettes is a problem; its not all skill. Countering good players of other ships is much easier than countering a vette, thats imbalance. Theyre speed and maneuverability is their balance, not excessivle high damage. People want to play the big ships and theyre fleeing because of the vettes. Sorry, you cant say its just all on the player when its so many saying it. That players dont have the modules and then are told "git gud" by veteran players is it any wonder theyre leaving?

Im not saying nerf the things, but they need fixed some

Vettes are rogues. Rogues are designed to play to the unawareness and burn down their target as fast as possible before being seen. A good vette player will be almost impossible to kill without help of others watching your back. this goes the same for just about every ship if put into a skilled players hands. Ive also gone 15/0 in an arty and ive flown out by myself numerous times to even attract those vettes to see how well they do and it ends bad for them. Seen some pros in destroyers that wipe up a team on their own. The biggest problem most of you face is mainly the matchmaking in being pinned against veterans who know the ins and outs of every ship.

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-227291) said:

saying you need two specific modules, which players may not have loaded out or even own, in order win is a perfect example of imbalance.

I think this is it.

Either the player is at T3 and doesn't have access to 'the' module. Or they're in T4 and grinding a single module requires 3+ hours each.

It's asking too much of people to have the patience to get smashed for 10-20 hours in a single ship T1-T4 because the counter-module is locked away in a moronic tier system. Life is too good and there are other games to play.

It's a failure of design, and I'm not sure how to fix it at this point.

To people's other points, they're basically correct that vettes themselves are okay. At T4+, on equal access to modules, I don't worry about corvettes.

Daganisoraan#4391 posted (#post-227292) said:

Here's why in my opinion corvettes appears to be OP.

A good corvette player will be an opportunist killer. A lone corvette regardless of its module selection stand few chances against a fully loaded dreadnought and this is why they rarely go against such ships. A good corvette pilot will take the time to choose his targets, going against solitary artillery cruiser that are often shooting and zooming and thus unable to see what's coming on their sides or behind. Same goes against a tactical cruiser or destroyer that has its energy depleted, another juicy target for a fully loaded corvette and easy to reach thanks to their speed.

Most other ships must take time to get close to their opponent and when you see your enemy coming onto you, have the time to shoot back, even if you die, the encounter seems fair. But corvettes can rely on their speed to cover the distance and by choosing weak target such fights appear unfair.

The problem comes when you think that's its more just to die after a long fight at equals arms rather than lose because the opponent was at the good place at the good moment when you where weak. How many time have you done that yourself, shooting at a weakened opponent, killing him and thinking that's what he deserved?

With every other ship I would agree with this statment. In my last match two players were flying the Valcour (#1 abused corvette) one was able to chain scrable me 4 times in a row, essentially I was blind until he killed me. another flying the Valcour simply flys right up next to my dreadnought not even trying to dodge, He couldnt make it anymore easy and I unloaded everything on him, I have to use armor core then rely on shield when that wore and and his shields never dropped below 35%... he never dodged just sat there and killed me... I watched as these two who I recognize from the past were killing everything in 5 seconds or less. These were ships that were at 100% armor and shields... now unless YOU WANT to say they must have been cheating and offer up some evidance of a hack, these ships are WAY past OP and to be clear I am talking about the Valcour and Nevis... 3/4ths in to the match my team had lost over half the team from quiting out over frustration of these two ships.

Side note, I have seen these two players fly others ships and they never do as well as they can with the Valcour and Nevis. But hey you all keep defending it this game will just simply die for good this time. I checked on steam and right now it only has a 48% approval, just wait until steam is over run with Valcours and Nevis ships.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-227294) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-227291) said:

saying you need two specific modules, which players may not have loaded out or even own, in order win is a perfect example of imbalance.

No, I gave an exsample of two modules that stop my dread from being able to take as much punishment as it can under "normal" conditions. People need to stop playing pewpew builds like they should beat everything, because they could in recruit, and learn the game. We have 2 loadouts per ship for a reason. We have purge, disrupt, drain, stasis for a reason.

"But I don't have it" is not an argument for unbalanced. At best it's because the game dose not teach players early on the importance of these modules, at worst it's because people cant/won't adapt there play style, and throw salt because someone else did.

Those counters are so weak against the Valcour and Nevis and the number one reason why is most of the time you cant target Valcour or Nevis, all those two ships need is power to the engines and you will never hit them. also the cool down timers for the counters are so long that even if you do manage to kill one they spawn back in and can get to and kill you while all your counters are still on a cool down timer.

Insidious_Wheat#1950 posted (#post-227304) said:

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-227294) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-227291) said:

saying you need two specific modules, which players may not have loaded out or even own, in order win is a perfect example of imbalance.

No, I gave an exsample of two modules that stop my dread from being able to take as much punishment as it can under "normal" conditions. People need to stop playing pewpew builds like they should beat everything, because they could in recruit, and learn the game. We have 2 loadouts per ship for a reason. We have purge, disrupt, drain, stasis for a reason.

"But I don't have it" is not an argument for unbalanced. At best it's because the game dose not teach players early on the importance of these modules, at worst it's because people cant/won't adapt there play style, and throw salt because someone else did.

Those counters are so weak against the Valcour and Nevis and the number one reason why is most of the time you cant target Valcour or Nevis, all those two ships need is power to the engines and you will never hit them. also the cool down timers for the counters are so long that even if you do manage to kill one they spawn back in and can get to and kill you while all your counters are still on a cool down timer.

Drainan pulse and storm missiles tend to kill them quick, same as a amped blast pulse or Nuke mine. Some ships will kill corvettes easier than others.

Also can't power to engines when you have no energy. Can't use there modules when disrupted, and just die when purged or stasised.

Sure it won't work 100% of the time because some people will just be better than you.

Insidious_Wheat#1950 posted (#post-227286) said:

I know how to counter Corvettes and it tends to be my main focus because so many are just defaulting to corvettes again in just 48 hours. Just one of the main problems with corvettes is if I can snag one with a mod and destroy him he simply spawns back in to the game and can cover the distance and unload on me killing me in seconds before my mods even recover from killing him just a moments ago. Speed and maneuverability in this game is the most powerfull weapon and nothing can match it right now. You can have counters but they are so limited and situational Corvettes are left with a huge advantage that makes the game unfun for most who have to play against them and why this game continues to suffer from low population (2 – 3 AI’s per team before this last wonderful patch).

Corvettes really hurt this games player base from the start and will continue to do so. The developers have a second chance here but if they don’t do something about corvettes soon then this game will continue to suffer from low population. I have flown in them and I feel dirty with what I have gotten away with, I don’t like how it ruins the game for so many others so I wont fly them. I cant tell you how many messages I got in the past accusing me of cheating because they cant hit me and I only have like 7 hours playing corvettes I think.

I convinced a hand full of friend’s to come back to the game and see the new changes and with the teams having 8 players on each side they all seemed excited about it other said perhaps they might check it out… it only took a few matches with corvette players to ruin it for them and by the third match it was comment after comment in chat about BS Corvettes and they all left with no intent to come back... and I am left with out a team again.

Brother Belial you and I have gone round and round about this in the past and but like it or not I believe you are in the minority on this ship class balance in the game and the majority of players have left the game and that’s why this game needed 2 to 3 AI players per team before this last great patch. If the developers what a financially successful game they need to appeal to the majority. My self and others will buy all the neat little mods and ship colors because people will want to support the game IF they are playing and enjoying it. But I wont spend anything if I don’t feel I will stick around because of something like Corvettes and others wont either. I can hang around and check in from time to time to see if things are more fun for me but I sure wont spend any money during this time.

I’m not trying to start an argument with you Belial and I genuinely think you want and try to help others and I believe you’re a good person for that so I hope you don’t read in my words any hostility.

I should also note I am focusing on Tear 3 and 4 ships, Corverres from the first and sencond are just fine. you can get kills and get killed but by the time you get the last two ships they are way out of control, its most likly the mods making it like this.

Insidious O7

There is much of what you say that I agree with (I see your reasoning). Your point about the ability for a ship to get across the battlefield and back into the fight before some modules are back up is interesting.

But, I am very much into the issue of balance in game and do worry that some people automatically think 'Big must win' and to have a small ship beat a big ship is unacceptable. Now I am not saying this is you, but a general acceptance of this type of thought process is something I've seen many times.

For me the following comes to mind (and welcome any input):

1. If the Corvette is killed but can then get back into the fight quickly, isn't the fact he was killed first, the real point - he lost that fight? Also as soon as the corvette comes back to kill the Dreadnought that killed him, doesn't the Dreadnought then come back with everything? This 'back and forth' is what conflict is all about and if it is happening like this I would say that seems reasonably balanced(?)
2. The second point I would make is that we tend to look at a 1 vs 1 scenario, when this is not the game. Whilst the corvette has respawned and is making his way back to the Dreadnought, that Dreadnought could be getting healed, so may not be a viable target to tangle with again? OR the Dreadnought could have continued to be focused by the rest of the team and is ripe for picking off.

Because of the different available builds, the different team compositions and just the different things that can happen in a battle, I feel the balance isn't too bad.

If there is one issue I do have then it is where you can have Divs with 2 healers. Healers 'played well' and backing each other up are extremely difficult to deal with and in certain circumstances seem nigh on unbeatable in the right team construct....BUT: Is it fair for me to argue a situation is OP if a Div is merely working well together? Isn't that what the game is about?

It is a great game and balance is naturally difficult to achieve because of all the different factors involved (as stated above) - this is why I argue against such a grind system and the difference between tiers for ships that are matched against each other (imagine a group of low tiered individuals facing a Div of higher tiered players!). For me it is this element that will see the death of the game as people will not stick around (it's already been proven).

I just hope the game survives through the place it finds itself atm. O7

If you want a solid counter against a corvette you need a very specialist ship at the moment. And if you are not sitting in such a ship you have a problem. The corvettes atacking strategie itself is almost always the same. There was a time when the stunnpuls had a higher range i was hunting them with the light Dread. Now they can warp out off the effectiv range off a secondary Dread weapon to easily. The main problerm is that a corvette has the choice whitch ship to attack and expecially medium and heavy sniper as well as a healer with full heal mods has no chance against them as long they keep out of range of the Flak. Using mines is very good but more a lucky thing. So i would say not the corvette is op it is more that not each ship can counter them well and what i said in the beginning you has to be a specialist to counter them realy well. But keep in mind if the group works together they die very fast.

Tucholski#5576 posted (#post-227308) said:

If you want a solid counter against a corvette you need a very specialist ship at the moment. And if you are not sitting in such a ship you have a problem. The corvettes atacking strategie itself is almost always the same. There was a time when the stunnpuls had a higher range i was hunting them with the light Dread. Now they can warp out off the effectiv range off a secondary Dread weapon to easily. The main problerm is that a corvette has the choice whitch ship to attack and expecially medium and heavy sniper as well as a healer with full heal mods has no chance against them as long they keep out of range of the Flak. Using mines is very good but more a lucky thing. So i would say not the corvette is op it is more that not each ship can counter them well and what i said in the beginning you has to be a specialist to counter them realy well. But keep in mind if the group works together they die very fast.

Unsure if your reply was to me but it did touch on what I said so thought I would reply:

I enjoy playing the Artillery ship so find myself looking for healers, lone ships and corvettes. I find I am not to bad at hitting the corvettes and pointing them out if I see them around the map (obviously that will involve people taking notice of my warning and we know in the middle of battle that isn't always easy).

However, even as an Arty I have to concentrate on one target to take them out effectively and from what you are saying, so does the corvette. So does the Arty fall into the 'specialist' ship? Maybe.

I also play World of Warships where I enjoy playing the Destroyer (the smallest ship). The Destroyer has the least damage on average over all 3 servers, it has the worst survival of any ship type on average across all 3 servers and its main damage weapon (torpedoes) has an average hit of around 10% across all servers. This ship type was never a beast, yet because players couldn't take having a little ship beat them the destroyer moved in game from being made to counter the Battleship, to a ship that spots for others and tries to capture objectives in game.

Even though I can't play Corvettes at all in this game, I would hate to see them get the same treatment.

You have a good point about them losing fast if focused on and this is a team game (but I also understand that not everyone is in communication with the team mates they play with, so team work can be difficult at times). O7