SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233800) said:

Belial does have a point in that this is a FtP game and in order to make income they need to have something like Elite status. Sure we want the grind reduced as consumers but its also a balancing act as Greybox does need to make money. A FtP game will be a no game to play if the company goes under, it isnt a charity after all.

I will also say when first getting to T3 the grind seems bad, but after you get more experienced and get to T4, T3 doesnt seem nearly as bad as initially.

I will disagree with Belial on cosmetics some. Yes, they cant make them too cheap, but they cant overprice them either. many paying people paying $3 apiece per skin will pay for multiple skins whereas you will have far fewer people paying $12 for a single skin. Its why cosmetics havent sold. I also dont think the devs woukd need to constantly put out skins: i dont think people will buy so many to the point they cant remotely use them all.

The FtP point is absolutely void of logic if you are trying to say the game doesn't have to entertain and capture the playerbase because it is free. That's like saying I'm a singer who goes under the name Dreadnought and I sing one type of music, free to all my fans (science fiction opera), if you want me to sing my full album I'm gonna make you wait a loooong time before you get it all; of course I can sing some other stuff but if you want different, you're gonna have to pay! But hey what's so wrong in making people listen to the same song over and over again, as they slowly work through my album!

That scenario is pretty much this game, and I am certainly not surprised that a little way into the album, players have looked elsewhere for variety and a better experience. I'm sure there will be my loyal fans out there that will absolutely love my voice and take whatever I do as platinum, but I would also not be too surprised if some say 'You know what, it's just not worth my time'. My fan base will diminish, I'll probably have to lay off some of my backing group and need to sort my shizzle out in order to reinvigorate my career. Maybe if I go on iTunes (Steam) it will give my waning career a boost, you know get new players (sorry listeners) in, I'd just better not make a poor job of it!

I know there are sci-fi opera fans out there, all i need to do is take them on the journey with me, release new stuff and let them enjoy that journey. Hook them and offer them special edition album covers etc to get them hooked, build that fan base by making it cost effective for people to get more involved and invested. Become the best singer out there.

Or I could say hey, my music is free, you should be grateful. O7

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

Yeah, the grind sucks, I dont think people will disagree. But its a typical business model for games at this point. Again, as consumers we want things as quick and cheap as possible, but that doesnt always align with a provider making money. Never forget, as much as people may love this game, Greybox is in it for profits. Its just how it is.

Im not saying i agree with the business model or like it, and Ive voiced my opposition numerous times about the price of cosmetics and currency conversion. But at the same time, I cant totally fault Greybox for running the business side as thry do.

Also, just a friendly reminder, the devs dont handle the business side, they only handle the game itself.

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233806) said:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

Yeah, the grind sucks, I dont think people will disagree. But its a typical business model for games at this point. Again, as consumers we want things as quick and cheap as possible, but that doesnt always align with a provider making money. Never forget, as much as people may love this game, Greybox is in it for profits. Its just how it is.

Im not saying i agree with the business model or like it, and Ive voiced my opposition numerous times about the price of cosmetics and currency conversion. But at the same time, I cant totally fault Greybox for running the business side as thry do.

Also, just a friendly reminder, the devs dont handle the business side, they only handle the game itself.

Again, with a more invested player base you will get more people committing to the game and wanting to spend because it is worth their time and they feel invested.

Yes the grind sucks. Yes Greybox is in it for profits, yes they haven't done very well and yes people are still leaving because they aren't hooked - that is also how it is.

I don't think the business model is great either, I'm assuming the fact that they had to let people go is a result of this. I can fault Greybox because they haven't changed as far as I can see. If you can see things aren't going well and you continue to carry on the same way who else is to blame?

A friendly reminder, I'm only discussing the game I play and the experience I have playing the game. As you have stated the devs handle the game, so who else am I going to address when talking about the game or indeed talking about the video where the devs were explaining what they were doing?

not sure what the problem is. didnt take long for me to get T4s. even with the playerbase today i got in 3 others right before steam launch.

Shocknfunk#5058 posted (#post-233810) said:

not sure what the problem is. didnt take long for me to get T4s. even with the playerbase today i got in 3 others right before steam launch.

Good for you Shocknfunk O7.

It.appears that the company have provided you with exactly what you want. I am sure there are many more that are also extremely satisfied.

I am not saying it can't be done, I know it can - who else is pleading for others to play Legendary each night , if not those who have reached that level?

What's more these players will soon have more Tier IV players to face off against, because it will be no longer a choice but a must that they play at Legendary..

I have no doubt it will be judged an 'awesome' success. But if things do get better for Legendary games won't that prove there were many Tier IV players that had previously said no to Legendary? My suggestion is that is due to the difference in the ships but more importantly the time those players knew they would be at a disadvantage because of the grind, so they chose to stay at Veteran.

WaveRider#4219 posted (#post-233808) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233806) said:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

Yeah, the grind sucks, I dont think people will disagree. But its a typical business model for games at this point. Again, as consumers we want things as quick and cheap as possible, but that doesnt always align with a provider making money. Never forget, as much as people may love this game, Greybox is in it for profits. Its just how it is.

Im not saying i agree with the business model or like it, and Ive voiced my opposition numerous times about the price of cosmetics and currency conversion. But at the same time, I cant totally fault Greybox for running the business side as thry do.

Also, just a friendly reminder, the devs dont handle the business side, they only handle the game itself.

Again, with a more invested player base you will get more people committing to the game and wanting to spend because it is worth their time and they feel invested.

Yes the grind sucks. Yes Greybox is in it for profits, yes they haven't done very well and yes people are still leaving because they aren't hooked - that is also how it is.

I don't think the business model is great either, I'm assuming the fact that they had to let people go is a result of this. I can fault Greybox because they haven't changed as far as I can see. If you can see things aren't going well and you continue to carry on the same way who else is to blame?

A friendly reminder, I'm only discussing the game I play and the experience I have playing the game. As you have stated the devs handle the game, so who else am I going to address when talking about the game or indeed talking about the video where the devs were explaining what they were doing?

I agree, get people hooked and they spend money, but they have to set things at a level that does make them profit. If they make the grind too easy, people wont pay for elite which is their biggest source of income. Players may be on the losing end, but it also boils down to players price points. Some see it worth it but others dont.

As far as getting people hooked. Well, the game is mostly balanced but the problem seems to lie more with newer players getting wrecked in veteran. I pushed through and got better, but a lot of people seem unwilling. As matchmaking is an issue Im not sure what besides fixing that can be done other than givingnstat boosts to T3, but that doesnt solve the problem of modules and OBs. Maybe have most OB be available at T3 insread of T4?

As for the friendly reminder (dont think you took offense but want to be sure) I was merely pointing out market prices arent set by the devs and they dont have control over that, so they cant be held accountable for those things. When it comes to gameplay, absolutely you address them.

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233815) said:

WaveRider#4219 posted (#post-233808) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233806) said:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

Yeah, the grind sucks, I dont think people will disagree. But its a typical business model for games at this point. Again, as consumers we want things as quick and cheap as possible, but that doesnt always align with a provider making money. Never forget, as much as people may love this game, Greybox is in it for profits. Its just how it is.

Im not saying i agree with the business model or like it, and Ive voiced my opposition numerous times about the price of cosmetics and currency conversion. But at the same time, I cant totally fault Greybox for running the business side as thry do.

Also, just a friendly reminder, the devs dont handle the business side, they only handle the game itself.

Again, with a more invested player base you will get more people committing to the game and wanting to spend because it is worth their time and they feel invested.

Yes the grind sucks. Yes Greybox is in it for profits, yes they haven't done very well and yes people are still leaving because they aren't hooked - that is also how it is.

I don't think the business model is great either, I'm assuming the fact that they had to let people go is a result of this. I can fault Greybox because they haven't changed as far as I can see. If you can see things aren't going well and you continue to carry on the same way who else is to blame?

A friendly reminder, I'm only discussing the game I play and the experience I have playing the game. As you have stated the devs handle the game, so who else am I going to address when talking about the game or indeed talking about the video where the devs were explaining what they were doing?

I agree, get people hooked and they spend money, but they have to set things at a level that does make them profit. If they make the grind too easy, people wont pay for elite which is their biggest source of income. Players may be on the losing end, but it also boils down to players price points. Some see it worth it but others dont.

As far as getting people hooked. Well, the game is mostly balanced but the problem seems to lie more with newer players getting wrecked in veteran. I pushed through and got better, but a lot of people seem unwilling. As matchmaking is an issue Im not sure what besides fixing that can be done other than givingnstat boosts to T3, but that doesnt solve the problem of modules and OBs. Maybe have most OB be available at T3 insread of T4?

As for the friendly reminder (dont think you took offense but want to be sure) I was merely pointing out market prices arent set by the devs and they dont have control over that, so they cant be held accountable for those things. When it comes to gameplay, absolutely you address them.

Ahhh, but you just went against your own previous quotes:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

If it is designed to make them money then they need people to believe they are getting their moneys worth. With such a slow grind I won't even consider spending my money. That will make things take longer, which means I won't spend money because I have no idea if I will bother to stay with something that seems a chore.

When I first started I was progressing well, thought 'this is great, may not be jumping leaps and bounds through this, but I could'.....I bought the Starter pack and advanced faster with elite. I also bought some Captain gear; my family even bought me the Leviathon....more elite time....Invested.

I then hit Tier III, even with the elite I had, the grind was ridiculous; when elite ran out I knew it would take longer. I then started to think 'God, the same thing over and over with no real progression' , so started to play other stuff. I didn't believe elite was worth it, I didn't think spending any more money on the game was worth it, as I believe now that I am more likely to leave then stay. Just how many more have already done the same.

Don't worry about the 'friendly reminder' bit, if I'm not sure how someone meant a comment to come across I always look at it being harmless. All I do is use the comment myself, that way the way they then reply to its use tells me all I need to know about how they meant it to come across. O7

WaveRider#4219 posted (#post-233818) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233815) said:

WaveRider#4219 posted (#post-233808) said:

SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233806) said:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

Yeah, the grind sucks, I dont think people will disagree. But its a typical business model for games at this point. Again, as consumers we want things as quick and cheap as possible, but that doesnt always align with a provider making money. Never forget, as much as people may love this game, Greybox is in it for profits. Its just how it is.

Im not saying i agree with the business model or like it, and Ive voiced my opposition numerous times about the price of cosmetics and currency conversion. But at the same time, I cant totally fault Greybox for running the business side as thry do.

Also, just a friendly reminder, the devs dont handle the business side, they only handle the game itself.

Again, with a more invested player base you will get more people committing to the game and wanting to spend because it is worth their time and they feel invested.

Yes the grind sucks. Yes Greybox is in it for profits, yes they haven't done very well and yes people are still leaving because they aren't hooked - that is also how it is.

I don't think the business model is great either, I'm assuming the fact that they had to let people go is a result of this. I can fault Greybox because they haven't changed as far as I can see. If you can see things aren't going well and you continue to carry on the same way who else is to blame?

A friendly reminder, I'm only discussing the game I play and the experience I have playing the game. As you have stated the devs handle the game, so who else am I going to address when talking about the game or indeed talking about the video where the devs were explaining what they were doing?

I agree, get people hooked and they spend money, but they have to set things at a level that does make them profit. If they make the grind too easy, people wont pay for elite which is their biggest source of income. Players may be on the losing end, but it also boils down to players price points. Some see it worth it but others dont.

As far as getting people hooked. Well, the game is mostly balanced but the problem seems to lie more with newer players getting wrecked in veteran. I pushed through and got better, but a lot of people seem unwilling. As matchmaking is an issue Im not sure what besides fixing that can be done other than givingnstat boosts to T3, but that doesnt solve the problem of modules and OBs. Maybe have most OB be available at T3 insread of T4?

As for the friendly reminder (dont think you took offense but want to be sure) I was merely pointing out market prices arent set by the devs and they dont have control over that, so they cant be held accountable for those things. When it comes to gameplay, absolutely you address them.

Ahhh, but you just went against your own previous quotes:

I get your point but again, this game is designed to make Greybox money and theyre not going to release a game where they make none. Also, technically you dont have to pay to get all the game, it just takes longer. Thats what sets it apart from FtW.

If it is designed to make them money then they need people to believe they are getting their moneys worth. With such a slow grind I won't even consider spending my money. That will make things take longer, which means I won't spend money because I have no idea if I will bother to stay with something that seems a chore.

When I first started I was progressing well, thought 'this is great, may not be jumping leaps and bounds through this, but I could'.....I bought the Starter pack and advanced faster with elite. I also bought some Captain gear; my family even bought me the Leviathon....more elite time....I get something from the game, the game gets something from me...Invested!

I then hit Tier III, even with the elite I had, the grind was ridiculous; when elite ran out I knew it would take longer. I then started to think 'God, the same thing over and over with no real progression' , so started to play other stuff. I didn't believe elite was worth it, I didn't think spending any more money on the game was worth it, as I believe now that I am more likely to leave then stay. Just how many more have already done the same.

Don't worry about the 'friendly reminder' bit, if I'm not sure how someone meant a comment to come across I always look at it being harmless. All I do is use the comment myself, that way the way they then reply to its use tells me all I need to know about how they meant it to come across. O7

Not really sure how I went against my own quote? They have to make money so theres a balance. Whether they have the balance right is another question entirely.

Im with you in that I dont spend money elite. Its not my price point but for other players it is. You cant cater to all so they have to find a median. Again, whether they have that right or not is another question. I'll tell you no, but maybe Belial will tell you yes. Who is right? It really boils down to the individual.

I mean, Im not sure how to really retain people beyong suggestions Ive given. Sometimes devs listen, sometimes they dont. Greybox may not listen at all. Something should be done the way they lose players, that much we can agree on.

Yeah, figured we were on the same page with the friendly reminder sometimes things just come over tone deaf on the internet :p

An FYI Waverider, legendary is quite active all the time now. I never have a problem to find a match after 11am GMT.