FORUMS


Thoughts on Tier Change



Posted: //
Nov. 18, 2018, 7:32 p.m.


Updated //
Nov. 18, 2018, 7:33 p.m.

To catch you up on upcoming changes: T4 is no longer in Veteran, only Legendary.

The Good:

  • Gap between T4 & T5 is much smaller than T3 & T4
  • Veteran will be a much more even playing field
  • Will most likely greatly reduce legendary que times
  • May improve legendary matchmaking

The Bad:

  • Will be much harder to level up T4 ships, as getting high scores will be harder in legendary
  • Will also be harder to level T4 ships, as you will only be able to get Battle Bonus in one mode instead of two
  • Going from flying T3s to being up against T5s is a huge huge jump
  • Players just out of T3 will be introduced to the merciless seal clubbing of certain elite groups
  • Some T5 modules greatly outclass T4 modules of the same type

Overall:

I think the real thing to improve here is general module balance within the T4/T5 bracket. The big problem here is players fresh out of T3 going up against elite T5 groups, and he reason elite groups stomp so well is that they typically take advantage of the most overpowered stragies in the game, which are just exacerbated by access to T5 modules. Good change, there are definitely tradeoffs made here, but overall net positive.


Posted: //
Nov. 18, 2018, 9:18 p.m.



Is T4 being legendary only actually happening, or is this just a suggestion?



Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 2:03 a.m.



SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233847) said:

Is T4 being legendary only actually happening, or is this just a suggestion?

According to the YouTube video it is.

VirtualRiot makes some good pro and cons to it. One better, he makes a suggestion to address the actual issue as oppose to merely transfering a problem elsewhere.

Wow, just think of all those players that bought sub-optimal Hero ships at least they had Veteran; not any more. What a kick in the nuts lol. Well done Dreadnought.


Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 2:07 a.m.



VirtualRiot#3785 posted (#post-233846) said:

To catch you up on upcoming changes: T4 is no longer in Veteran, only Legendary.

The Good:

  • Gap between T4 & T5 is much smaller than T3 & T4
  • Veteran will be a much more even playing field
  • Will most likely greatly reduce legendary que times
  • May improve legendary matchmaking

The Bad:

  • Will be much harder to level up T4 ships, as getting high scores will be harder in legendary
  • Will also be harder to level T4 ships, as you will only be able to get Battle Bonus in one mode instead of two
  • Going from flying T3s to being up against T5s is a huge huge jump
  • Players just out of T3 will be introduced to the merciless seal clubbing of certain elite groups
  • Some T5 modules greatly outclass T4 modules of the same type

Overall:

I think the real thing to improve here is general module balance within the T4/T5 bracket. The big problem here is players fresh out of T3 going up against elite T5 groups, and he reason elite groups stomp so well is that they typically take advantage of the most overpowered stragies in the game, which are just exacerbated by access to T5 modules. Good change, there are definitely tradeoffs made here, but overall net positive.

Good points. You outline the problem in your overall section very well. Although a slightly better scenario Dreadnought have failed to address the real.

So many have come up with alternatives but hey, it's not as if they should maybe listen, they have been doing so well up to now. O7


Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 3:57 a.m.



Of course, they had to announce this just as I've finished grinding every T3 to T4...


Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 4:10 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 19, 2018, 4:12 a.m.

VirtualRiot made some interesting points here. But while I think that his pros are all valid most of the cons are exaggerated. Here is why:

  • Will be much harder to level up T4 ships, as getting high scores will be harder in legendary
  • Will also be harder to level T4 ships, as you will only be able to get Battle Bonus in one mode instead of two

It was announced that the battle bonus will be adjusted to be (much) more rewarding. That should make up for the potentially lower scores of T4's. Of course we will have to wait and see if that's actually the case.

  • Going from flying T3s to being up against T5s is a huge huge jump
  • Players just out of T3 will be introduced to the merciless seal clubbing of certain elite groups

Yes, that's a problem but not a new one. Currently the exact same thing happens to fresh T3 players when entering Veteran for the first time. At least with T4 in Legendary exclusively T3 players have more time to get accustomed to the playstyle of the ship class of their choice without being stomped. The way the new battle bonus system works further encourages players to level up a wider variety of ship classes than they normally would have prolonging their time in Veteran.

Long story short players will be more experienced when they enter Legendary for the first time due to their extended time in Veteran which should help to lessen the seal clubbing a bit.

  • Some T5 modules greatly outclass T4 modules of the same type

Of course they do because they're meant to. It's intrinsic to every tier system that higher tiers outclass lower ones. That's the carrot dangling in front of you to make you play so you can unlock these sweet T5 modules eventually.

The obvious solution would be the introduction of a fourth fleet to accommodate T3 and T4. This way we would have T1/2, T2/3, T3/4 and T4/5. The transition from one fleet to the next would be much smoother. But that would stretch the limited payer base even thinner making queue times worse as a result. That's probably the reason it's not being implemented, at least not in the near future. Whether or not the faster queue times outweigh the T4 wall is a different question entirely.


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Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 7:34 a.m.



wow, this sounds like a terrible decision. Even with an enhanced battle bonus, I cant imagine it being better than having a ship in both veteran and legendary fleets. Further you can now have less ships receiving the xp since theyre all shoehorned into legendary fleet.

And not that veteran will only be T3, given the far less xp and creds needed, xp are going to accumulate with nowhere to spend. If thats an attempt to get people to buy currency conversion thats even worse.

Im seeing a lot more cons. Yeah, it may be easier for players just getting to T3 but it sounds like no long term gain.



Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 8:27 a.m.



What has also been omitted from all this, is the MM is being reworked too. "Veteran players who squad will only face veteran players who squad" allong with they plan to have ranked "Soon"TM.

Every time you move up a tier your modules get better, and you have more options than the teir below, this is nothing new in game terms. Power creep has beein in the game since the start, regardless of when you started to play.

The more of the same Teir ship you have in your fleet, the more BB will reward you. Lets also not forget T4 modules are vastly cheaper than a T5's.

T4 modules are, 35K XP and 20K credits, 45K+22K, 55K+25K. T5 modules are, 58K+70K, 66K+80K and finally 72K+90K.

So as you can see a T4 will gear up faster than a T5.


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Posted: //
Nov. 19, 2018, 8:46 a.m.



SkyRaider#3584 posted (#post-233854) said:

wow, this sounds like a terrible decision. Even with an enhanced battle bonus, I cant imagine it being better than having a ship in both veteran and legendary fleets. Further you can now have less ships receiving the xp since theyre all shoehorned into legendary fleet.

And not that veteran will only be T3, given the far less xp and creds needed, xp are going to accumulate with nowhere to spend. If thats an attempt to get people to buy currency conversion thats even worse.

Im seeing a lot more cons. Yeah, it may be easier for players just getting to T3 but it sounds like no long term gain.

This was exactly my point in my 'Please NO!' thread.

Now read SADs post. Notice his first point is a lets wait and see....how many times have we heard this and been disappointed. His second point just highlights the issue isn't a new one, no it isn't new - still here! His third point is another subject that he believes isn't so bad but then he provides a solution to make it better. So we have 2 things that have been bad for a while and one where we will have to see what will happen. And that was supposed to be a positive post about the current state lol.


Posted: //
Nov. 21, 2018, 3:55 a.m.



Bad thing. Very bad.

The negatives not only outweight the positives, every negative by itself is much more staggering.

Seperating T3 from T4 is understandable cause of the briefs, but even that is a moot point casue apparently T3 is getting briefs too. Why not just keep Legendary as it is or make it T5 only, and leave Tier Four alone or give T4 its own queue.

Yes the ship base stats are within tolerable parameters, but the overclocked modules T5 has access to is way too much. This change will only mean Dreadnought as begun its final descent, and the final destination is a decomissioning ceremony.

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