FORUMS


Why do the Gravis and Lorica have so much spread?



Posted: //
Nov. 16, 2016, 1:43 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 16, 2016, 1:45 a.m.

I don't have the numbers, but it seems that these ships have as much spread as or more than the pre-patch Monarch. This is very frustrating from a quality-of-life standpoint. It's very unsatisfying to be in situations where your enemy is at a sliver of health at the edge of your range, and despite perfect aim and lead, the majority of your shots simply pass above and below your target.

If the intent is to reduce long-range damage and boost close-range damage, why not just leave the accuracy the same as pre-patch, and adjust the damage curve appropriately? The effective DPS of the weapon at all ranges can stay the same, but my ability to aim and lead, not RNG, should determine whether I can deal a finishing blow over a given 3-second window at long range.

If the intent is to reduce performance against small targets, then it would be nice if you'd reconsider that; the ability to consistently damage targets at med-long range was a unique and interesting trait of the pre-patch Invictus.


Posted: //
Nov. 20, 2016, 4:57 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 20, 2016, 10:26 a.m.

Tested things out for a while.

Let me preface this whole thing: I'm not saying that the Gravis/Lorica should be buffed. I just want its damage output to be primarily bounded by how well I can aim and lead, not by spread RNG. Using a weapon with horrible spread feels terrible compared with an accurate weapon with equivalent effective DPS. If the devs intended for the Gravis/Lorica to do less damage at particular ranges, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but please strongly consider shrinking the spread to pre-patch levels and using the damage curve to do this.

Imgur
This is the approximate spread of the T4 Lorica at max range. The wall is ~4.8k away, measured against allied ship distance indicators. The least accurate shots will land just short of the blue portion of the crosshair ticks. The light artillery destroyer to the upper right is ~4.1k away at this moment; compare with size of spread circle.

Now let's look at the spread for the T4 Morningstar, which I assume has the same weapon as the T4 Voronezh:

Imgur
At this distance not a single projectile missed the enemy. The spread of the heavy plasma cannons at 5k comfortably fits inside the small circle on your crosshair graphic, as the yellow spread ticks approximately indicate.

Here's a live example.
Imgur

Let's do some quick-and-dirty estimates by counting pixels...
Imgur
I'm firing at a not-Monarch, I think, which is the largest target in the game seen from the side, next to the not-Zmey. I'm not firing at the center of his ship in this screenshot, but for example's sake let's move the circle a bit. The circle is radius 42px, area ~5542px. I'm probably overestimating the spread in this picture, so let's say really generously that the spread is radius 35px, area ~3848px. The green box covers 80x23px, area 1840px.

The spread is biased towards the center, but even being generous with the spread, firing at the largest target available in most situations at 4.4k, I can expect only about half of my projectiles to hit? This more or less matches up with in-game experience, by the way - at that range there are sometimes volleys where zero projectiles hit.

And if we're looking at a smaller ship like an artillery cruiser from the front, you might hit 15% of your shots with the light plasma cannon even with optimal aim vs. a stationary target. And in this situation you do pretty much the same damage whether they're evading or not, so they might as well sit still and shoot back. You might have a hard time hitting an artillery cruiser that's trying to evade with heavy plasma, but if you're good enough I bet you can do better than the spread on the light plasma allows you to.

I don't have any idea what the Jutland/Monarch's guns shoot like, so I checked some old videos. This is from https://youtu.be/r4eQMel_Gvs?t=4m58s:
Imgur
Bounding circle is, again, just smaller than the spread indicator. He's hitting most of his shots at 4.4k against a Grenada, which at this angle is similar to a Zmey from the side. I assume this hasn't changed too much - someone who has the Trident or Jutland, let me know if I'm really off. The heavy ballistic cannons also have pretty good projectile speed, and has the additional advantage of withering firepower at close range.

E: Turns out I was totally lying about all the DPS stuff. I still can't tell for sure whether the damage listed on the stats spreadsheet is for the full volley or for individual projectiles, because the Jutland looks pretty off.

If nothing else, devs, please at least tell me whether it's a conscious decision. I'd much rather have lower damage and more accuracy for the same effective DPS.


Posted: //
Nov. 20, 2016, 11:25 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 20, 2016, 11:34 a.m.

With the new patch the guns change per tier, so I would not expect the Lorica guns to have the same spread, lets wait what it is after we have unlocked it. But, yep the following T3 ships I have flown got nerfed hard with the spread increase: Gravis, T3 Akula Dest

Regarding the dev-stat-sheet, the damage values are all projectiles that get fired if you click once combined, for the actual dps you need to factor in the weapon cooldown (and the reload speed), so for the dps with reload the formula is (damage * clip-size) / ( weapon-cooldown * clip-size + reload).


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
Nov. 20, 2016, 6:58 p.m.



I have the Lorica, it's the same gun as the Gravis with faster firerate.


Posted: //
Nov. 20, 2016, 7:02 p.m.


Updated //
Nov. 20, 2016, 8:17 p.m.

Anthem#7701 posted (#post-60716)

I have the Lorica, it's the same gun as the Gravis with faster firerate.

This is very sad. Lets hope this gets changed, because this makes the Repeater Guns the primaries for these Dreads.


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
Nov. 20, 2016, 8:17 p.m.



Agreed that the spread is a bother.

If I remember right, the trident fires in more of a consistent shotgun pattern than the Gravis. The Gravis guns seem random as you mentioned.

Next time in game I'll pay closer attention.


Posted: //
Nov. 29, 2016, 3:12 p.m.



I finally got the Lorica myself and as Anthem stated it has the same spread as the Gravis.

In my opinion this needs a fix as you won't even hit big targets with all projectiles at more than 2km and this combined with the rather low damage compared to the secondaries (as we have no "new" numbers, I am guessing from pre patch values), makes them pointless.


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
Nov. 29, 2016, 4:20 p.m.



It's really noticeable when you activate Armor Breaking Ammo on the Lorica. Suddenly your bullets become a nice tight pattern (like pre-update). Then after 5 shots you are back to the large spread.


Posted: //
Dec. 1, 2016, 9:33 p.m.



Anthem#7701 posted (#post-57453)

I don't have the numbers, but it seems that these ships have as much spread as or more than the pre-patch Monarch. This is very frustrating from a quality-of-life standpoint. It's very unsatisfying to be in situations where your enemy is at a sliver of health at the edge of your range, and despite perfect aim and lead, the majority of your shots simply pass above and below your target.

If the intent is to reduce long-range damage and boost close-range damage, why not just leave the accuracy the same as pre-patch, and adjust the damage curve appropriately? The effective DPS of the weapon at all ranges can stay the same, but my ability to aim and lead, not RNG, should determine whether I can deal a finishing blow over a given 3-second window at long range.

If the intent is to reduce performance against small targets, then it would be nice if you'd reconsider that; the ability to consistently damage targets at med-long range was a unique and interesting trait of the pre-patch Invictus.

Lol, have you tried playing the Nav?


Posted: //
Dec. 2, 2016, 12:12 p.m.



Cosmic_Force#6851 posted (#post-73992)

Lol, have you tried playing the Nav?

Compared to the Gravis/Lorica the Nav has perfect accuracy.


Recruit Engineer

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