FORUMS


Decrease stealth effectiveness on the Furia (t2 nox)



Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 12:01 p.m.



Reason is simple, new players don't know anything about stealth and with the current 1 shot kill bomb catapult, this is worse than corvettes in T3 and T4. Even for a trained eye it's hard to spot a Furia coming in and they are getting a lot of free kills like this.

Given this is a tier for new players, there should not be such a tactics as 1 shotting and farming this way. By decreasing the stealth effectiveness, they will learn about stealth and how to spot it.


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Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 12:16 p.m.



I kind of like it. I know it's hard on new players, but it's also not an easy thing to pull off. When the MM pool is bigger the players skilled in that will probably get matched against other skilled players.

Once I figure out a player is running that strat I can usually make them pay.


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 1:06 p.m.



Focusing on 1 player that does this is like having to focus on a corvette player the entire match, you can't properly score points because you are countering 1 specific build.


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Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 2:38 p.m.


Updated //
Nov. 28, 2016, 3:50 p.m.

So I get the feeling this is posted because of me.

It's a surprisingly ineffective tactic actually. Any team with a decent healer (Like you, Anyone), can effectively neutralize it by popping the cloak with a beam. At the same time, bomb catapult, unlike many other far more unfair moves like Blast Pulse and Assault Blink Warp, is stopped by shields. One button press, and you have a Furia at close range with low energy. Done. Also, hold shift! If I can't get below you, I can't hit you. Done. Keep in mind that I have to use power to engines to get any real distance too, so I primarily use this as a suicide tactic. Run in cloaked, blow up the heals, try and shoot missiles and shots at anything that moves until I'm inevitably blown up. This is done to create openings for my team to come in and mop up when the healer is gone.

Part of the reason I use this is because the Furia is an incredibly effective close range skirmisher with the other, far more prevalent T2 sniper, the Tugarin. Also at the moment Tactical cruisers don't have any real threats beyond a coordinated team. The Dover has 5000 HP, and the Tac comes with a 3900 damage shield piercing explosion and a beam that locks on and removes the need to aim as carefully as one needs to in, say, a Furia. I don't see a reason why tactical cruisers shouldn't have to deal with actual, dangerous threats. Right now, games are basically decided on whether each teams death ball can protect their healers better, and they often take forever. I am deliberately moving to break this formation up, because even if I only get one kill, or even none, disrupting the healing and distracting the fleet creates a strong opening that other players recognize and move to utilize.

While we're at it, why allow Goliath torpedo and Nuclear missile then? Both of those are capable of one-shotting most other types of ships, and unlike bomb catapult, they can be shot from afar, and not from point blank, directly beneath another ship. Also, those two classes have some HP to tank with. My Furia has been lovingly armored with tissue paper and prayers. Decreasing the effectiveness of cloak basically takes away the only thing the Furia has going for it, which is its relative maneuverability and speed compared to the Tugarin. If you call what I'm doing free kills (It's quite difficult to pilot an artillery cruiser like it's a corvette by the way), then I should go write up a post about how my Furia tends to get blown up by a random nuclear missile that was shot at a teammate. I don't get any warning at all in that situation, since the nuke is targeted on them, but I am still instantly destroyed nonetheless.

Also, since when is having to react to counter your opponents strategy considered a bad thing?

If we want the first two tiers to teach new players how to play Dreadnought, then maybe a good lesson is "Don't focus so much on your target you forget to watch your flanks." Or just nerf it. I'm having fun with it, so it's obviously broken smile


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 5:09 p.m.



TBH let them have it because they have no HP what so ever even worst then a vette. They are the easiest kill for me and I applaud them when they manage to get me first before them when I buzz around picking off the scraps of the enemy in my vette and they are the vigilant ones in the end gunning me down XD


you won't escape my Frightning bolts!!!


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 5:16 p.m.



Farpixia#2482 posted (#post-68838)

So I get the feeling this is posted because of me.

It's a surprisingly ineffective tactic actually. Any team with a decent healer (Like you, Anyone), can effectively neutralize it by popping the cloak with a beam. At the same time, bomb catapult, unlike many other far more unfair moves like Blast Pulse and Assault Blink Warp, is stopped by shields. One button press, and you have a Furia at close range with low energy. Done. Also, hold shift! If I can't get below you, I can't hit you. Done. Keep in mind that I have to use power to engines to get any real distance too, so I primarily use this as a suicide tactic. Run in cloaked, blow up the heals, try and shoot missiles and shots at anything that moves until I'm inevitably blown up. This is done to create openings for my team to come in and mop up when the healer is gone.

Part of the reason I use this is because the Furia is an incredibly effective close range skirmisher with the other, far more prevalent T2 sniper, the Tugarin. Also at the moment Tactical cruisers don't have any real threats beyond a coordinated team. The Dover has 5000 HP, and the Tac comes with a 3900 damage shield piercing explosion and a beam that locks on and removes the need to aim as carefully as one needs to in, say, a Furia. I don't see a reason why tactical cruisers shouldn't have to deal with actual, dangerous threats. Right now, games are basically decided on whether each teams death ball can protect their healers better, and they often take forever. I am deliberately moving to break this formation up, because even if I only get one kill, or even none, disrupting the healing and distracting the fleet creates a strong opening that other players recognize and move to utilize.

While we're at it, why allow Goliath torpedo and Nuclear missile then? Both of those are capable of one-shotting most other types of ships, and unlike bomb catapult, they can be shot from afar, and not from point blank, directly beneath another ship. Also, those two classes have some HP to tank with. My Furia has been lovingly armored with tissue paper and prayers. Decreasing the effectiveness of cloak basically takes away the only thing the Furia has going for it, which is its relative maneuverability and speed compared to the Tugarin. If you call what I'm doing free kills (It's quite difficult to pilot an artillery cruiser like it's a corvette by the way), then I should go write up a post about how my Furia tends to get blown up by a random nuclear missile that was shot at a teammate. I don't get any warning at all in that situation, since the nuke is targeted on them, but I am still instantly destroyed nonetheless.

Also, since when is having to react to counter your opponents strategy considered a bad thing?

If we want the first two tiers to teach new players how to play Dreadnought, then maybe a good lesson is "Don't focus so much on your target you forget to watch your flanks." Or just nerf it. I'm having fun with it, so it's obviously broken smile

You're most likely the only one I've heard doing any of this so if I ever come across you then I hope to give you a good fight. So far my worst nightmare has been Dragommer


you won't escape my Frightning bolts!!!


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 5:23 p.m.



I like to play a fairly aggressive Tac Cruiser, using Energy Generator to always have extra movement and shields ready. I find if I am being aggressive and mobile, the Catapults rarely get me, and often I get them first.

It's when I get bogged down in some gully having to heal a TON, because the team can't push and go on the offensive, that's when I am most likely to get a Bomb Catapult death. A Nuclear Torpedo or Nuke would have done just the same to me. I was not able to be mobile and make myself a hard target to hit, so the death is kind of expected.

There are a lot of Artillery and Tac Cruisers out there that just camp a spot and never move. They kind of deserve to die from the catapult.


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 5:53 p.m.



Vigilant#3864 posted (#post-68999)

I like to play a fairly aggressive Tac Cruiser, using Energy Generator to always have extra movement and shields ready. I find if I am being aggressive and mobile, the Catapults rarely get me, and often I get them first.

It's when I get bogged down in some gully having to heal a TON, because the team can't push and go on the offensive, that's when I am most likely to get a Bomb Catapult death. A Nuclear Torpedo or Nuke would have done just the same to me. I was not able to be mobile and make myself a hard target to hit, so the death is kind of expected.

There are a lot of Artillery and Tac Cruisers out there that just camp a spot and never move. They kind of deserve to die from the catapult.

O wait ya I remember you are one H311 of a tac keeping me away XD


you won't escape my Frightning bolts!!!


Posted: //
Nov. 28, 2016, 11:05 p.m.



The big difference between Cloaker/Bomb Catapult and Goliath Torpedo is the Goliath Torpedo announces its presence well before hand with bright neon colors. Where as the Cloak/Catapult slips in fires and you die before you realize the ship was there unless you managed to spot it on approach or saw it right before it launches.

When you die because you failed to noticed a Goliath Torpedo you feel like an idiot for not noticing the neon sparkler.

When you die because you were engaged with someone else and a Arty goes under, fires once and you instantly die. You feel frustrated because there was no chance to react beyond noticing a rather good Cloak Effect slipping under you WHILE trying to pay attention to the other team. Basically no other weapon in the game is capable of killing you without you being able to TRY and react, as every other weapon that can one shot you gives you ample time to react.
Honestly I don't think its the Cloak that needs changed, I think it's the Bomb Catapult itself that needs some tweaking as the entire point of it was to be more of a long range area saturation move. Not a Stealth Bomber one shot nearly anything you slip under. I say that because the concept of Artillery Ships in general is to stay at range not brawler distance for the most part.
As for 'hold shift' Not every ship can do that, was playing against someone else using the Bomb Catapult, I got distracted fighting a Corvette and Destroyer and saw his Arty trying to move under me. I immediately held shift but the Artillery can move downward faster than a Destroyer and he was still able to go under and fire with me not being able to do anything at that point.
As for it being an 'ineffective' tactic, I've seen others like Funky use it to GREAT effect. Sneak around the map, bomb catapult someone, quickly slink away.


Posted: //
Nov. 29, 2016, 3:38 a.m.


Updated //
Nov. 29, 2016, 3:39 a.m.

Farpixia#2482 posted (#post-68838)

So I get the feeling this is posted because of me.

Not necessarily. There's a few others that do this tactic as well (FunkyColdMedina for example). While I think this is one of the most fun tactics on the nox (used to use it back in 1.1), I don't think it should be that easy in low tier matches for the sake of new players.

In none of the occasions where I've seen it happen, the ships are being detected. Even I have trouble finding a stealth Furia some times. I'm looking all around and still I get killed and see it was a Furia below me while I swear I was looking around.

I was wrong, I did not look properly, but if someone that knows the tactic, is actively looking around, still gets surprised, how is a new player supposed to counter that? Or even notice it?


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