FORUMS


A Petition for Change



Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 7:25 a.m.


Updated //
Dec. 12, 2016, 7:27 a.m.

I absolutely respect what you're trying to do. I just don't believe that it's the right way to do it.

You're trying to work with the devs in the hope that you can get them to change ENOUGH that it'll keep the game afloat.

The problem I have is that there is no "enough" that I can see as being enough, without MAJOR changes from the current formula. Given the poll responses I've gotten so far, it looks like the majority of the playerbase agrees with me.

You had 23 people work together on this petition. That means that over a week and a half, you've only gained 14 new signatures. My poll only took 4 days to get 50 responses, 45 of which are going against what this petition is offering.

It would be entirely reasonable for someone to conclude that there are over 300 people who would have supported a counter-petition that demands the removal of maintenance. I don't honestly think that would be accurate, but there are numbers which can be used to make such a case.

I only made my poll 4 days ago. I didn't pre-plan it and ask others to sign, I just posted it in here. In a full week less than your poll took to earn 14 signatures, I got over 50 votes on that poll.

You say it takes courage to sign a petition. And you're right - for the first couple of signatures. It took a lot for me to speak out AGAINST a petition that already had 3 pages of people supporting it when I joined the conversation. I can only imagine how many people felt pressured to either keep quiet, or to sign because this was the only thing that seemed like a serious push for change.

There isn't pressure in ANY direction with an unbiased poll where your vote can remain anonymous. You don't get forced by peer pressure into supporting a cause which isn't actually what you want. You can freely share your opinion, whatever it might be. In those first 50 responses, there were 5 votes - only 10% - who actually seem to think progression 2.0 is right for the game.

Like I said before, you COULD argue that your 37 votes here would be representative of all those people actually being in favour of progression 2.0 and extrapolate that they're in the 10% my poll shows. That would suggest that there are over 300 people looking at the forums who made an active decision to NOT sign. I think it's more reasonable to assume that of the 37 votes, the first 23 were pressured by their involvement in the creation of the petition, and the remaining 14 were pressured by the one-sided nature of a petition, and by the signatures it already had. My poll results give me confidence that there are a lot of people who would have been HAPPIER signing a petition which asked for more meaningful changes. I don't believe it would pick up hundreds, but I'd be surprised if it didn't have more than double the support you've managed to gather with this petition.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 7:45 a.m.



May I just take a step in here and ask: Are you both really measuring the lenght of your poll-p***s? Dudes! We have so much better to do than say "Buuut my poll is way beddurrr!!!!!!"...
This just seems like an unnecessary attempt to get some kind of flame-war/trolling going. Both the poll and this petition are about the same thing and are made for a similar reason, both want to change the game in better ways. So can we stop this... whatever this is?
This negative competition is just... wrong.


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 7:51 a.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77459)

You should realise that going back to older version cant be done,the new progression system is a months of work,Devs stated before that tiers are here to stay,what is left is to make this game approachable to broad audience(again with the same progression system we have now),with adjustments and fixes.


"The First Of His Name"


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 8:03 a.m.



Odin#5262 posted (#post-77473)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77459)

You should realise that going back to older version cant be done,the new progression system is a months of work,Devs stated before that tiers are here to stay,what is left is to make this game approachable to broad audience(again with the same progression system we have now),with adjustments and fixes.

A large portion of that "months of work" can be repurposed without being lost. Those new models will make great cosmetic items. Instead of being core content that supports an unnecessary and frustrating mechanic the players don't like, they can become the replacement monetisation option the devs will need to replace the failed experiment of maintenance costs.

And even with the things that can't be recycled, none of that makes it impossible to go back. Beta means beta. Unfinished means unfinished. Trying new things means TRYING NEW THINGS NOT DECIDING TO STICK WITH THEM EVEN IF THEY'RE MISTAKES. Just because the devs decided to do something, doesn't mean they can't change it. Just because something that clearly ISN'T what the players want has already been done, doesn't mean it can't be fixed. It absolutely can. And like I said the last time you raised that (completely unjustified) objection, THESE DEVS HAVE ALREADY DONE EXACTLY THAT BEFORE. They've made bad changes, and they've UNMADE the change that the players didn't like. They've shown a willingness to do exactly what you're claiming they "can't" do without any real justification for that claim.

Saying "I put a lot of work into polishing up the brown lump I found in the toilet" doesn't mean you can't realise it's still not pretty, and doesn't prevent you from flushing it instead of hanging it on the wall like a prized possession.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 8:19 a.m.



Its got to be worth something that this thread has gotten so many replies so quickly. Can't you see Greybox? People care. They just want the good game back.


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 8:52 a.m.



I agree with everything on this list


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 9:07 a.m.


Updated //
Dec. 12, 2016, 9:19 a.m.

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77474)

THESE DEVS HAVE ALREADY DONE EXACTLY THAT BEFORE. They've made bad changes, and they've UNMADE the change that the players didn't like. They've shown a willingness to do exactly what you're claiming they "can't" do without any real justification for that claim.

What u are reffering to(officer briefings "idea" that wasnt even implemented) isnt the same thing as the whole game.

Saying "I put a lot of work into polishing up the brown lump I found in the toilet" doesn't mean you can't realise it's still not pretty, and doesn't prevent you from flushing it instead of hanging it on the wall like a prized possession.

Who said all the players are feeling the same way you do about the update?Please dont start with the poll thing again.
p.s Look how many people signed here.


"The First Of His Name"


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 9:45 a.m.


Updated //
Dec. 12, 2016, 9:48 a.m.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-77500)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77474)

THESE DEVS HAVE ALREADY DONE EXACTLY THAT BEFORE. They've made bad changes, and they've UNMADE the change that the players didn't like. They've shown a willingness to do exactly what you're claiming they "can't" do without any real justification for that claim.

What u are reffering to(officer briefings "idea" that wasnt even implemented) isnt the same thing as the whole game.

First, YES the officer briefings change WAS implemented and a lot of the negative feedback was in direct response to the change that happened, and the response was to remove that change. Second, that is only one of several instances where things have been done by the Dreadnought devs, and undone later. Third, there is plenty of precedent for other developers, not only in games, but in other software development as well, reversing changes. To the point that "rollback" is a commonly-recognised term used in the software development industry for when that happens.

Saying "I put a lot of work into polishing up the brown lump I found in the toilet" doesn't mean you can't realise it's still not pretty, and doesn't prevent you from flushing it instead of hanging it on the wall like a prized possession.

Who said all the players are feeling the same way you do about the update?Please dont start with the poll thing again.
p.s Look how many people signed here.

Quote me not saying everyone feels the same way I do. Ask me why I think everyone feels the same way I do.

And here, 23 people had pre-signed, according to the petition's creator. Over the course of 11 days, there were 14 new signatures added. In my poll, there were 50 responses over the course of only 4 days, none of which were decided prior to the posting of the poll. I actually took some time to decide on my own vote after posting.

That poll DOESN'T show that everyone agrees with me. It doesn't show that the whole community agrees on anything. But it DOES show that the majority of the community would prefer NOT this solution, and would prefer NOT the solution the devs seem intent on pushing for no logical reason beyond "we already made it" - fun fact: THEY ALSO ALREADY MADE THE SYSTEM WE HAD BEFORE.

And lastly, saying "how do you know what other people think about something? Oh, but you can't use the evidence you got from asking them what they think" is a pretty stupid attempt at ignoring valid evidence in an argument.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 10:33 a.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77526)

That poll DOESN'T show that everyone agrees with me. It doesn't show that the whole community agrees on anything. But it DOES show that [...]

Gonna cut you off straight at the knees there... As one of those who voted for a complete rework I could still live with significant changes. Significant in this regard meaning any reaction at all by DN at this point... Anything that can even roughly be described as an acknowledgement of reality would serve by this point.

I actually began work on a much more complex poll to get a better feeling what to do with the game in the current state, but frankly, unless DN sends it out to all their players, there isn't anything statistically relevant this would proof.

Regards,
Imrahil


Posted: //
Dec. 12, 2016, 12:45 p.m.



All i know is something is needed to keep me playing DN , as it stands as a more casual player , DN in its current state isn't playable for any length of time . there is no good progression just stomp after stomp .when lower tier ships have no or little effect against a higher tiers in a match. its only a fair fight with equal tiers , the power creep between tiers is atrocious and unforgiving . with MM in its current low population state , you wait for a long time for a drop or get a unbalanced team that completely stomps the other . 1 out of 5 matches you might get a a real close and even match , the rest are very one sided matches . thats a BIG ISSUE in my book .noone wants to play in that kind of environment . so they leave .
i like the game environment , i love the ships design and the lore , the ships control and movement . the idea for the tech trees its the whole tier balance that's broken .in its current state i cant recommend it for anyone

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