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Why some sources claim this game to be MOBA?



Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 1:23 a.m.



Anthem that is LITERALLY what obliviondoll explained why it does not work and is not a proper genre name (instead he used dota instead of AoS, so yeah substitute dota with AoS in his post and you got the counter argument fr your post already...

Basically people I have no idea what defines the different genres these days, seen lots of ppl call just about any online game for an MMO, even though there is clearly no persistence in the game


Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 1:53 a.m.



The term "AoS" did come before "DOTA-like", which was the term that "MOBA" was specifically invented to replace. It's still a completely meaningless term and gets misused like crazy. Most definitions of it that actually make sense as a genre classification limit it to DOTA-like games, where you have the lane/minion/hero type core gameplay.

I think a large part of why Dreadnought is called a MOBA is because of the frequent comparisons to Fractured Space, which is actually kind of a MOBA and developing more in that direction.


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Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 11:56 a.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-77724)

The term "AoS" did come before "DOTA-like", which was the term that "MOBA" was specifically invented to replace. It's still a completely meaningless term and gets misused like crazy. Most definitions of it that actually make sense as a genre classification limit it to DOTA-like games, where you have the lane/minion/hero type core gameplay.

I think a large part of why Dreadnought is called a MOBA is because of the frequent comparisons to Fractured Space, which is actually kind of a MOBA and developing more in that direction.

Ya Fractured Space is a MOBA and is going that direction, as it does have the level up system along with the Tier based MM. Also the 3 lanes...well 2 actually and its objective based gameplay, where as Dreadnought is just a TDM game with no objectives to speak of. I would classify Dreadnought as a 3rd Person Shooter, rather then a MOBA.

Dreadnought better be careful though, Fractured Space is its main competitor, and isn't a major money grab game. Its got better balance, and even has true carriers (oodles of fun), a class that Dreadnought could use.


Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 2:51 p.m.



"AoS" is really short for "AoS-styled map", which makes perfect sense as a genre name, although there'll never be a genre name that is fully self-explanatory for someone who hasn't seen any examples.


Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 9:30 p.m.



John Hand#1058 posted (#post-78015)

Dreadnought better be careful though, Fractured Space is its main competitor, and isn't a major money grab game. Its got better balance, and even has true carriers (oodles of fun), a class that Dreadnought could use.

Fun fact: There was a tier-based unlock system in Fractured Space - a model similar to the one in Dreadnought right now. It was actually, even then, better than Dreadnought's current model, because the unlocks were NOT direct linear upgrades, and the various ships in each tree were actually distinctive, unique and different. Every ship felt individual, rather than just being 50 "ships" that are just variants of the same 15 core ships with the lower tiers having stats and customisability pulled out of them for no good reason (there's an EXCUSE, but not a valid REASON, which is entirely different).

Fractured Space intentionally ABANDONED that model because it went against what players wanted, even though the devs had spent a lot of time and effort creating the mechanics behind it - far MORE time and effort than has been involved so far in creating progression 2.0


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Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 9:43 p.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-78128)

No offence mate but have u read the new patch notes?Have you seen the differences between the classes and what changed among tiers amor/dps wise?


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Posted: //
Dec. 13, 2016, 9:56 p.m.


Updated //
Dec. 13, 2016, 10:06 p.m.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-78130)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-78128)

No offence mate but have u read the new patch notes?Have you seen the differences between the classes and what changed among tiers amor/dps wise?

Tier system is still a tier system. Tier based unlocking and hard-locked progession mechanics are still in place. The basic concepts of progression 2.0 that I (and many others) dislike about the model are still directly and deliberately getting in the way of having fun. Tweaking the numbers on a core pile of junk is not going to stop it from being junk at its core. The core point I had been making in the post you almost managed to quote is that the tier-based system is a linear grind of better ships as you go up the tree, which is still true. Adjusting the specific details of how MUCH better the ships get doesn't change the fact that it's a linear progression within a tech tree model that another game which actually had more legitimate and better ship variety realised was a bad choice.

There are some great things being added to the game. A new game mode that sounds really awesome, and some more cosmetics which I would love to spend money to support the devs with IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO WHAT THE FANS VERY CLEARLY WANT. It's not hard to see what everyone has been consistently asking for even since before progression 2.0 came out. EVEN BEFORE IT HAPPENED, people were speaking out directly against the model the devs decided on. Since it came out, there has NOT been any let-up in the "this model is a terrible idea" feedback. As long as that is obviously going to be a continuing point of contention against the game from the majority of the playerbase, it is going to need to GO AWAY, not be "tweaked" to be less of a problem.

Focusing on making the core problem "less of a problem" instead of just GETTING RID OF IT SINCE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING OF VALUE is a major poor decision. The entire basis of the tier system is anti-fun. There are a lot of things I don't like about Fractured Space that make me wish I could support Dreadnought in its place. But this is an aspect that FS got right, and the Dreadnought devs are getting horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. And it gets in the way of the game actually being worth playing at all. It gets in the way to the point that I went back to FS in place of trying to force fun out of the failed core that's been rammed into what used to be a better game.

I know you're one of the (very few) people who actually seems to legitimately support progression 2.0, so no offense - but your baby is a failed experiment that the majority of the community clearly DOESN'T agree with you about. It's just down to the devs realising the experiment failed and moving on. I hope they can do that before it's too late.


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Posted: //
Dec. 14, 2016, 7:31 a.m.



Imrahil#3251 posted (#post-77086)

It actually is a MOBA.

You have Damagedealers, Tanks and Healers, it used to be 5v5, the maps are all separated into roughly three working venues of attack.

In fact, this game has a high potential as a MOBA, right now it's been butchered in that regard sadly...
Lincrono#9039 posted (#post-77132)

some people think it's a MOBA because it actually is. It doesn't have the DOTA farming elements that drag other MOBA match times past 1/2 an hour, but it's got the healers, tanks, and damage carries.

So by these margins, Unreal Tournament is a MOBA as well, because you got weapons that can heal friendlies, you got long range and AOE based damage dealing weapons. Just because there is a limited team sized in an enclosed space, does not make it a MOBA. Try something like just classic Dome Fighting.

Dreadnought has nothing to do with an ASSFAGGOTS (Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides), and the less cues it takes from them the better. As for OP; Millenials and game "crtics and journalists" don't really know any better, they think superficial similarities qualify as definitions.

That's why they think Call Of Duty and Battlefield are not far apart enough cause you shoot virtual people in both.


Posted: //
Dec. 14, 2016, 7:47 a.m.



Moba was the term specifically developed for LOL. Obviously the league of legends developers didnt want to call their game dota-like. By that background a MOBA is a team vs team game with specific roles for players. The huge difference to a TDM is that players fulfill roles.

You dont have role in UT or COD. Yes you can heal, but its not like thats your job in these games.

So in the general opinion Moba means Team-vs-Team-Game with Player-Roles. Typically these are Tank, Healer and DD. Therefore WoW isnt a moba cause the main content is PVE, UT isnt a moba cause there are no real roles and Overwatch IS known as a moba cause it fits this definition.

So believe it or not, Dreadnought is a Space-Moba. Fixed Number of players in Team-VS-Team with specific roles.


Posted: //
Dec. 14, 2016, 9:03 a.m.



DanteOne#4244 posted (#post-78435)

Moba was the term specifically developed for LOL. Obviously the league of legends developers didnt want to call their game dota-like. By that background a MOBA is a team vs team game with specific roles for players. The huge difference to a TDM is that players fulfill roles.

You dont have role in UT or COD. Yes you can heal, but its not like thats your job in these games.

So in the general opinion Moba means Team-vs-Team-Game with Player-Roles. Typically these are Tank, Healer and DD. Therefore WoW isnt a moba cause the main content is PVE, UT isnt a moba cause there are no real roles and Overwatch IS known as a moba cause it fits this definition.

So believe it or not, Dreadnought is a Space-Moba. Fixed Number of players in Team-VS-Team with specific roles.
Oh, so Battlefield is a MOBA then, cause you got roles to fill and objectives to do? No, try again. Dreadnought is not an ASSFAGGOTS, no matter how you twist it.

By your criteria, every team and role based shooter is a MOBA as well. By your criteria, Diablo 3 COOP with buddies playing different characters is a MOBA as well.

And yes you do have a role in UT and Quake and COD. That role is dependant on your current positioning against enemy's positioning that in turn is dependant on your location on the map and what is your currently equipped weapon at that point in time.

Anyone who claims Dreadnought is a MOBA, or has MOBA elements, does not know any better. Before you try to backpedal to something like "but the in-game currencies can be used to unlock in-game stuff and progression, just like in MOBAs, and MOBAs have inmatch gold management" you might wanna be aware that it's a direct evolution of the tried and tested economy and inventory management seen in just about every RPG ever made.

What does this mean? It means despite games share superficialities, it does not make them anything. It is infact, an extremely flimsy criteria to base anything on, if not borderline irrelevant. The same analogy can, and will, be applied to the very same composition and role element.

From a game design perspective, Dreadnought is first and foremost a Third Person Shooter that revolves around team actions and roles. The 'other' notable example, Fractured Space, since it was mentioned in the thread, is as well a Third Person Shooter with team responsibilities and roles, but instead of going for the pure action approach Dreadnought has, Fractured Space instead takes the general gameplay objective of MOBAs and puts it into a new format.

This doesn't make it a pure MOBA though, just a TPS with classes and roles revolving around strategic objective and its pushing.

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