Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79941)

Well at least everything else is obviously true due to your lack of even acknowledging anything else I said.

I hope you guys turn this game into something good but the way it is now, it don't stand a chance of being anything more then a fad people will play a few days and toss it aside.

Sorry but that is a logical fallacy.

Argument from Ignorance

Just because I did not refute all points doesn't mean that they are true. In this case, I spoke to the one point that I am qualified to speak about.

This update has been out since November .. 5th? (or god, was it october?) I think. I stopped playing after a week of CENSORED.

Beowulf#6663 posted (#post-79951)

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79941)

DN_Hyphenator#0000 posted (#post-79925)

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79813)
The problem as I see it, The Developers have no clue what they have implemented as far as the grind goes. They play with maxed out ships with unlimited credits and have no idea what its like running a tier 2 or 3 ship against tier 4. They are completely clueless. The grind itself is not that bad but to have to do it with such un-balanced matches is ridiculous.

Just to be absolutely transparent and clear, this is untrue. Our QA testers may have various levels of progressed and non-progressed accounts and some of them may test at max level for completeness. However, all of the Grey Box employee player accounts are explicitly forbidden from being granted special items or additional currency or experience points. I can attest to this personally because, since the new Progression 2.0 release, I am very far behind everyone and play in Tier 1 still.

Well at least everything else is obviously true due to your lack of even acknowledging anything else I said.

I hope you guys turn this game into something good but the way it is now, it don't stand a chance of being anything more then a fad people will play a few days and toss it aside.

I don't know, again, from what obliv has been saying it sounds like WoT and while that game is extremely grindy it has a good player base. Also keep in mind that this update apparently only came out a few days ago; Lets see where it goes before we cast final judgments on it. Still this does not bode well for the game

DN_Hyphenator#0000 posted (#post-79958)

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79941)

Well at least everything else is obviously true due to your lack of even acknowledging anything else I said.

I hope you guys turn this game into something good but the way it is now, it don't stand a chance of being anything more then a fad people will play a few days and toss it aside.

Sorry but that is a logical fallacy.

Argument from Ignorance

Just because I did not refute all points doesn't mean that they are true. In this case, I spoke to the one point that I am qualified to speak about.

You know what? You are right, I am wrong, the game is perfect exactly how it is, LAUNCH IT, lets see what happens lol

Beowulf#6663 posted (#post-79869)

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79843)

Beowulf#6663 posted (#post-79840)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-79836)

https://www.greybox.com/dreadnought/en/forum/topic/33237/

Long-running petition from some of the more active fans, created based on the NON-RESPONSIVENESS of the developers to the consistent negative feedback against almost everything that progression 2.0 stands for. The group of active Dreadnought supporters who have essentially given up on making real change settled on a set of small changes to push for in place of actually demanding the kind of meaningful change the game will need to survive long-term.

If you can deal with them keeping the tier system, but trying to refine it, support the petition. If you're ok with maintenance, but changed up a bit to be less punishing, support the petition. If you want the devs to build the game around "must spend money to keep playing how you want", support the petition.

https://www.greybox.com/dreadnought/en/forum/topic/37192/

This newer petition is one I created. It pushes for more changes, and more meaningful change, than the older one. It doesn't have much support yet, but it's only just started. And unlike the first petition which is based on discussion back and forth between a small group of players already disillusioned by their persistently-ignored attempts to make the kind of changes the game NEEDS, this was backed up by a poll of the community, and is based on what the majority of players have been asking for - a return to the state we had before progression 2.0 - and building on THAT as a starting point to make the game work.

Before 2.0, your problems with tiers simply did not exist. There were no tiers. Ships were all relatively well balanced against one another - actually much better balanced than a lot of already-released class-based games. Before 2.0, the progression system still needed work, but there were several valid and helpful ways to develop it into a more player-driven and fun system (which could also become an effecitve monetisation mechanic), where the current system is strictly linear with no real option to expand out from being linear and restrictive.

Personally, I think we need to go back. Obviously, Odin is a good example of someone who has given up on seeing that change (he's openly countered my previous arguments NOT with anything that actually goes against them, but with "the devs worked for months on the update, they're not going to go back"). He's not alone in accepting the state of the game and being willing to accept far less change than many others who have quit.

If we can get enough people to support a petition - ANY petition - we might see enough change ot keep the game alive. I would rather see enough change to bring me back, and to bring many players I know of EITHER back to the game OR into it for the first time. I have 3 invites which I plan to share with friends, but only if there's enough change to bring me back to the game. I'm not going to invite people to a game I no longer have any interest in playing. I have several friends who WERE lined up with plans to buy into the beta before progression 2.0, but hesitated because of the concerns about it - and are currently very glad they DIDN'T buy in after seeing how it's been (mis)handled. I have other friends who were watching the game with interest until 2.0 and ended up looking for ways to cancel their registration for a chance at a beta key. There are people out there who are actively AVOIDING news they had previously been trying to find, because of the complete ignorance of player feedback coming into this update and pushing forward with the direction it took.

So i just got a Key yesterday and havent been able to play yet (keeps saying the servers are down, not sure of the problem is on there end or mine) What exactly did this recent update do and is it as bad as you guys are making it out as?

You just got your key? And you think I am salty? Wait until you actually get in and see how bad your bent over and F*ed up the A before you think we are "Just Being Salty"

My advise is buy the founders pack now or you don't stand a chance. Its Pay to Win at its best.

I say your salty because of how over the top you are, you make it sound like this games beyond hope when it's still in closed beta, while i'm not saying you shouldn't talk about the game problem's, again it's in closed beta so we should, however when you talk about it like this it stops sounding like "Reasonable concerns" and goes straight to "Been drinking salt water" Take a step back, calm down, and come at this with a level head like the other guy who sounded a lot more reasonable and quite frankly sane then you are in the original post.

Tons of people have tried the "Reasonable Concerns" approach and where has it gotten them? Oh yeah, most of them have quit playing. I think its time for some harsh truth, time to stop sugar coating everything and say it how it is.

A frosted pile of shlt is still a pile of shlt regardless of how much frosting you pile on top of it!

Beowulf#6663 posted (#post-79840)

So i just got a Key yesterday and havent been able to play yet (keeps saying the servers are down, not sure of the problem is on there end or mine) What exactly did this recent update do and is it as bad as you guys are making it out as?

To sum it up, they added tiers. You start with three ships, and have to unlock all the rest by progressing through a tree; all of the other ships are gated behind buying and playing other unrelated ships (which needlessly adds to the grind, especially if you don't like the ships you have to grind through in the first place to reach your target ship; for example, you need to go through T1-3 destroyer > T3-4 tac cruiser > T4 dreadnought if you want to reach the Monarch line). Additionally, the different tier ships are not really balanced against each other; in a Veteran match, if one team gets a lot of T4s and the other a lot of T2s, then chances are the T4s are going to absolutely steamroll.

Prior to the tier system, you started with 5 ships (one of each class), and unlocked the others by reaching levels 15 and 25 (5 more at each milestone). You also unlocked various pieces of equipment at each level. All the ships were pretty balanced with each other (with standard rock-paper-scissors interactions, though these were not insurmountable; with the right builds, you could counter ships you were weak to). The only real downside with this system was the fact that some of the more powerful pieces of equipment were high-level (as you'd expect), meaning that high level players could bring a lot of nasty stuff to bear that low level players couldn't deal with; that's the only positive I can think of for this new system (though it's kinda negated by the whole T2 vs T4 thing in Veteran matches).

Edit: Whoops, forgot that the page number thing was under the reply to thread box... this has already been answered >_>

Odin#5262 posted (#post-79821)

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-79819)

Well speaking of FanBoys

Starting to love that title.

You can buy tier 4 ships on day one, that is the essence of pay to win and if you DON'T buy them, well, your just cannon fodder until you do.

Magic word "can",its doesnt mean that u will be able to handle it.

P.s Did u just compared 2 completely different games?

Fvck off Odin, people like you are the reason the devs aren't making any serious changes.
"CAN" is the magic word I do agree, it means there is no paywall, however, within 10 years humanity CAN colonise all of the SOL system, the Ku Klux Klan CAN become a radical black lives matter group, China CAN give all its money to charity. But... realistically none of these things will ever happen. Yes, you CAN unlock the Monarch with enough grinding, except you will also make huge losses while using it and it will take you ages of grinding unmodded T1 ships to get there and almost all the playerbase WILL (not can) leave the game and play something else.
Even cashdumping into Dreadnought doesn't feel fun, you always wonder if you are getting value for money and honestly you feel like you are just paying the executioner to not behead you for another week.
As for comparing 2 completely different games, I don't know much about Hawken tbh, but it seems like they were comparing the devs mentalities and playerbase/ f2p model, not the gameplay.

I love Dreadnought and its gameplay. If the game is a pile of painful sh`t when it launches however, I will leave and have just as much fun playing other games. I'm a consumer, I choose what is the best to me (something Greybox don't seem to understand) ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Take it from me, you buy up to a tier 4 from the get go and your going to screw yourself on the experience to be proficient in the game. Also, I really wish the community who hates free to play games would stop throwing around the notion of pay to win. It's not pay to win. Pay to win is paying money to have an advantage that isn't attainable any other way. That's not whats happening here. We get to pay for the endgame quicker and truthfully I'm not really a fan of this either, as I feel it's bad for the community. It encourages a power gap between the playerbase vis-a-vis wealth rather than experience. And that in and of itself has a "class warfare" undertone that tends to tee those who are reluctant to spend money on a game off, which in turn is one less person playing the game, who also wants to pee in the community pool that is Dreadnought. But cmon, It's a free to play game, your not being charged to play the game, and yes, this game's development and it's servers aren't being subsidized by philanthropists. It has to make money somehow or else there won't be this game. So, I'm willing to put up with this pay for quicker endgame model, though I would have gladly opted for a monthly sub fee that is reasonable, say around 5 dollars a month, that gives you say 300 grey box points, that doesn't completely destroy the current system by putting a limit to how many grey box points can be purchased each month, say something like $10 worth. This hopefully would incentivize players to take the journey of progression from tier 1 to tier 4 through gameplay and the accumulation of in game points rather than the wonderful wormhole of the bank note... But whatever, it is what is.

PS: P I S S I N G is not allowed on the forums >.>

Eckzein#3180 posted (#post-80027)

Take it from me, you buy up to a tier 4 from the get go and your going to screw yourself on the experience to be proficient in the game.

Whatever! My 8 year old could beat you in a tier 4 ship if all you got is a tier 2.

Beowulf#6663 posted (#post-79951)

I don't know, again, from what obliv has been saying it sounds like WoT and while that game is extremely grindy it has a good player base. Also keep in mind that this update apparently only came out a few days ago; Lets see where it goes before we cast final judgments on it. Still this does not bode well for the game

What you (and most defenders of this model) are missing is that there are a range of reasons why WoT got away with its model, and none of those things can be applied to Dreadnought:

1. It was basically the first game using the model it had. Dreadnought is YEARS late to be following in its footsteps with any hope of success.

2. The individual tanks are almost all unique and different, not linear stat upgrades with extra module slots thrown in at certain tiers on top of the flat "better than previous tier" build-up.

3. The tiers are MUCH flatter in WoT than Dreadnought, in part because they have a lot more tiers.

4. Even with much, MUCH less of a gap between tiers, players who quit - and there are a lot - frequently mention the elements of WoT that Dreadnought is trying to mimic as reasons to quit.

5. Even with all the things which have allowed it to get away with that model, the game (and the company running it) has been losing popularity fairly steadily in recent years as players move to the competition where new devs are NOT mimicking that now-proven failed model.

We get to pay for the endgame quicker

This is one of the problems. There should be no endgame at all. Progression should not be about end game, but about options and possibilities, customization..but not power needed for endgame.