FORUMS


How can we help this game make money without feeling used?



Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 9:49 p.m.


Updated //
Jan. 27, 2017, 9:51 p.m.

Spork#2479 posted (#post-99138)
most players are going to hit T3 and never make it into the higher levels simply because they don't grind enough.

This.
Devs giv vindicta plz.


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DN_cult#1584 posted (#post-101857) Currently in discussion / design: · ̶W̶a̶i̶f̶u̶ ̶s̶k̶i̶n̶s


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 9:51 p.m.



I agree with Spork here. They never gave the previous no-tier model a chance to succeed. They offered the custom geo for purchase only in the form of hero ships--which I bought all of. They didn't put the cosmetics in the market for purchase. And I bought ships with gp, but I assume the gp prices were place-holder. @littlemiss, you may be correct that they won't change back, but it's not because the previous version failed. I loved the old version, and my wallet was ready for a market full of custom geometry. In the tiers I've got nothing to spend money on.

With the current progression system, a "finish" point is necessary. And it should be early. For monetization and for competitive reasons. I just got to t4, and the xp reqs are super high. So I've basically halted spending creds because it'll be weeks before I have unlocked modules to spend it on. All of my credits are bought with gp because the bundles are affordable (thank you devs). If they give me the opportunity to spend creds I will. Right now the xp grind prevents me from spending real money.

Also very much agree with previous posters that infinite/scaling grind is a bad idea. My friends and I have jobs, significant others, kids, etc. It's important for players to enjoy the full experience (t4/5) and to be fully competitive (t4/5) without dreadnought being a second job.

If every ship class has a hero that is fully customizable for a reasonable price and it skips t1-3, I will buy it. I love the custom geo for swapping. And I love the packaged paint schemes that can be applied. Put xp/cr boost and I'll buy it even faster. For the right price. MWO sells mechs in $20 packages that include elite time and I think that is pretty much perfect.

This is my most played game right now. I love it. The gameplay after t1/2 is still great. Give a way to pay $20 for a ship and skip all the blah in the lower tiers. Playing in t1/2 feels awful. It's watered down and I just harvest inexperienced players. It's not right for anyone. And t4's customization options are good, but it'll take weeks to unlock and spend $5 worth of credits on modules. For monetization sake, in a month when the game releases a new ship, I should have 'finished' the previous month's ship and feel ready and wanting a new ship to level--which should be finished in time for the next one. Right now each ship is like a lifetime project to unlock everything.


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 9:54 p.m.


Updated //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:10 p.m.

All right fair enough- I was unnecessarily harsh. I've been in a pi$$y mood later on today, so I apologize for being hostile. I did mean when I said that your system(s) have merit, but I still don't think that it can stand alone. Now I could be wrong, but I don't think it will encourage enough players to spend. And I still stand by emotes/voice lines- it's not like a HUGE deal, but it's both easy to implement and I believe will have some positive results. Again, I am sorry for being hostile. I've fallen into a bit of a habit of assuming people are just bashing the system, which is really easy to do when you're also in a **** mood.

Also, again, remember that grinding will be significantly easier in the near future once they fix the income bug and make the tweaks to maintenance (hopefully. They've said they're looking at it so I hope it turns out well.). That will go a significant way to making the current system less unappealing.

Also: How about we avoid trying to shut down other people's ideas on this thread? I realise I'm one of (if not the) greatest culprits in this. It doesn't help anybody, just discourages people from putting up their ideas. The thing we want to do here is give all our ideas out for the devs to see and hopefully take some inspiration from.


Make The Forums Great Again!


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:01 p.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-99150)

An endlessly expanding grind that gets longer with every new item the devs add in will NOT mean an unbalanced game where you can'y play competitively, IF IT'S DONE RIGHT.

Look I've played games competitively (with many others whom I know would agree with me here) and I know that if the meta keeps changing, nobody is happy. Adding unending grinds will just make it more frustrating. Eventually, people will stop caring. That would just seem like far more of a money grab than the current system, to me. It makes comp play too subject to change and again, either FORCES people to spend time grinding before they can again play comp, or spend money to advance. Once you get to comp tier, you should never have to get there again because it got moved up. Getting new ships at the same level is fine, as you still have your others, but having to get to a whole new tier would be unacceptable to many of the more casual comp player.


Make The Forums Great Again!


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:06 p.m.



Yea your point about meta shifts concerns me also. Like if an officer briefing becomes 'must have' and it's on the manufacturer that you never leveled. So it's 40 hours of xp grind away.

I think they already plan to address this by removing officer briefings to some separate system, but definitely a valid point.


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:21 p.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-99150)

Jawayne#8001 posted (#post-99102)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-99054)

Jawayne#8001 posted (#post-98977)

All proposals I see are rather short time, while the progression lasts, what about long term, how do you get people to pay for the next 15 years (my guess for the planned longest lifetime of the game)?

See my first post in the thread which addresses long-term progression (with potential for infinite scaling as long as the devs work on new content to grind towards), solves the problem progression 2.0 introduced where you can't have multiple loadouts for a single ship, and avoids maintenance.

Some people still hope for some competetive environment, and an infinitely scaling grind is pretty much the opposite direction, as time played/money invested will always create an advantage, while the current system has a hard cap, which of course might take a long time to actually reach.

So I am not too fond of this, as I would prefer some cap at which the competetive part of the game starts, and I do not have to think about my progression anymore.

Did you even READ my first post before replying to that?

Done right, THAT MODEL can work, and will work WELL - it opens up players who want to be competitive to focus on the competitive options and get them early on. It also allows more casual players to run with the things they think are cool, IMMEDIATELY. When rebalances shif the meta, more experienced players have 3 options:

  1. Grind hard
  2. Drop some cash to accelerate/skip the grind
  3. Adapt to the shift using the tools they already have unlocked, until they get the next new toy

Less involved players are a bit more open, since they haven't already built up a grindwall, and it'll only be a short few matches before they unlock a couple more of the latest top-tier toys.

Competitive players - the ones who are hardcore into the game and have already gotten invested - will be incentivised to EITHER pay OR play more (with playing more being support for the game's playercount, which keeps it active and fun for everyone).

An endlessly expanding grind that gets longer with every new item the devs add in will NOT mean an unbalanced game where you can'y play competitively, IF IT'S DONE RIGHT.

Yes I read it, I do not feel the same way as you. But thats my personal opinion. I prefer to reach a state where I am done with the progression, maybe have to endure some updates, but I am not very keen on a infinite grind system in an Arena Shooter.

Cannot make everyone happy.


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:22 p.m.


Updated //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:23 p.m.

Little Miss Sunshine#7845 posted (#post-99156)

And I still stand by emotes/voice lines- it's not like a HUGE deal, but it's both easy to implement and I believe will have some positive results.

First, I stand by the emote/voice line idea. I really want that "Get in close so I can hit them with my sword" one to be put in.
But... Emotes take a lot of work. You have to plan the emotes, either MoCap it or observe the movement. and if you don't MoCap you have to manually set the movements. I'm actually not even sure if the people have real skeletons set up or if its a basic, rigid one just thrown together.

Voices are easy relative to that though. Decide on line> Record line> Audio engineer for finishing > Implement into game and tie the sound to whatever action it goes to.

Anyways, I'm starting to ramble...

I also want "RAMMING SPEED" "...Yes Captain"
And if you guys are talking about these kinds of emote things... smile then I feel really stupid.


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DN_cult#1584 posted (#post-101857) Currently in discussion / design: · ̶W̶a̶i̶f̶u̶ ̶s̶k̶i̶n̶s


Posted: //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:41 p.m.


Updated //
Jan. 27, 2017, 10:41 p.m.

The emotes we're referring to are meant for post game, to be used by captains in that scoreboard lineup. Yes, that one will take a bit of work but I have no doubt there would be a positive return on investment. Also, if anyone didn't catch my update earlier, I'll put it here:

Also: How about we avoid trying to shut down other people's ideas on this thread? I realise I'm one of (if not the) greatest culprits in this. It doesn't help anybody, just discourages people from putting up their ideas. The thing we want to do here is give all our ideas out for the devs to see and hopefully take some inspiration from.

Constructive feedback=good, "I think this is a bad idea"=bad. Basically the same guidelines I like to bring up for talking about the game itself. I plan to do this in the future and I hope everyone else does, too.


Make The Forums Great Again!


Posted: //
Jan. 28, 2017, 9:39 a.m.



My proposal starts with "REMOVE THE TIERS". There is no tiered grind. New content is new HORIZONTAL expansion of content, not extending any kind of vertical progression.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
Jan. 28, 2017, 12:20 p.m.


Updated //
Jan. 28, 2017, 12:21 p.m.

Little Miss Sunshine#7845 posted (#post-99163)

The emotes we're referring to are meant for post game, to be used by captains in that scoreboard lineup. Yes, that one will take a bit of work but I have no doubt there would be a positive return on investment. Also, if anyone didn't catch my update earlier, I'll put it here:

As long has have the skeletons in place it's not hard to do as it's why some kid cartoon series just won't die as it's costly to to set up but cheap to run and since it's a simple action can't be that difficult. As for voice lines “DAKA! DAKA! DAKA!” a must for any true vetty pilot and need a giant fog horn at the very least for ramcan.

Little Miss Sunshine#7845 posted (#post-99163)

Also: How about we avoid trying to shut down other people's ideas on this thread? I realise I'm one of (if not the) greatest culprits in this. It doesn't help anybody, just discourages people from putting up their ideas. The thing we want to do here is give all our ideas out for the devs to see and hopefully take some inspiration from.

You have a very nasty knee jerk reaction the second anyone mentions removing the tiers, please rein it in as it's not helpful.

CtrlAltWheee#2640 posted (#post-99159)

Yea your point about meta shifts concerns me also. Like if an officer briefing becomes 'must have' and it's on the manufacturer that you never leveled. So it's 40 hours of xp grind away.

I think they already plan to address this by removing officer briefings to some separate system, but definitely a valid point.

TBH there are a few what are must have already, desperate measures, adrenalin shot and module amp kind of are for some ships. That and you have no idea how powerful the Retaliator + renforced + slow and steady + module ampere + Energy generators combo can be. You can literally can fire light nuke torps + torp salvo every 10 seconds with a 30% damage boost, have weapon booster pulse perma run and can tank for days due to retaliator and energy gen a positive feedback loop, my gora was a disgusting beats back in alpha smile
Saying that with obliviondoll in saying the tiers need to be horizontal be it in how many utilities they have, bonuses to certain areas what balanced with reduction in other areas (thus making new ship tech progression path meaning more ships to buy,) tweaking weapon optimal and ROF and ammo, (you could just make turn that into purchasable items instead,) tweaking hit boxes so higher you go the more narrow certain ship profiles get. Pretty much anything just not a straight up armor energy and weapon boost, or at least nerf those gains with something other than a laughable minuscule drop in speed for what you get. -_-

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