FORUMS


Purge Ram and Matchmaking in General



Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 4:27 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 4:31 a.m.

Yep but if you're now suggesting a self-debuff yourself why make it shorter than the debuff on the enemy? Also frankly a purge rammer doesn't care about a disrupt, after you land the ram your work is done and you can just pick them off. What it needs is a full duration self-drain like purge shot and purge beam, and at least weapon breaker on top like purge beam does.

Same as other purges, make it high risk, high reward. It would still be strong if you got your entire team behind you but it would stop being the one man wrecking ball that can just cut through an entire enemy team and fly out safely.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 4:41 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 4:52 a.m.

That'd be a suicide wish for the rammer, and quite honestly the worst thing they could throw on there. As I said, purge ram is a purge nuke that you have to hand deliver. Making it basically give you the full effect you're putting on the enemy would make it relatively worthless. Think realistically. This is a weaponized ram, they wouldn't market it if it's basically just a bomb you set off on yourself. They could argue it if it only effected you slightly, because it installs dampeners in your ship that become active when the ram does, reducing it's effect on you. They got rid of the whole energy drain after hitting someone with a ram nonsense back in alpha, and it's something that would be extremely inadvisable to bring back. We're trying to make it balanced, not remove it's viability as a module entirely. By adding that drain and full disrupt effect on yourself, even the most skilled rammer would die every single time they went in to kill a target, without it being even remotely likely that their target would even be dead by the time they die. Because lets be honest, the moment you hit a ram, everyone's shooting at you. Your health would evaporate before you emptied your first 4 flak rounds. I believe a reduced disrupt effect on it's user would be more than enough to make it balanced, thank you. What you are suggesting would effectively remove it as a viable option in solo play.


description


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 5:05 a.m.



Snib#1627 posted (#post-38576)

Well I'm in the camp that says purges are overall too strong, on any ship. We got enough individual disables, force people to make a choice rather than give them the easy all-in-one package.

In addition, purge ram not only gives you a super short-cooldown AOE purge, it's also the only purge in game that comes without any downside to its user (purge nuke can at least hit yourself). Slap an energy drain and other self-debuffs on it and it can stay the way it is for all I care, but currently it's a risk-free "have your cake and eat it, too" card.

I agree 100% with that one.
What is the point of drain/stasis/disruptor IF YOU CAN GET PURGE!!! It simply make other modules useless. Purges however can be made viable by making them weaker and have longer cooldowns.
next thing is that Desperate Measures should remove it like it says in description!!!
Dreadnought have now big problem there are a lot of modules that put CC but almost 0 that remove them...


  1. Pick artillery cruiser 2. Play like pro 3. Get suddenly attacked by vette 4. Press energy shortcut with unmatchable reflex 5. get rek because you set energy to guns.

Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 5:25 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 5:26 a.m.

Draggommer#5725 posted (#post-38582)

I believe a reduced disrupt effect on it's user would be more than enough to make it balanced, thank you.

Except it would make zero difference. There are no modules at all that I would want to activate during those 3 seconds of reduced disrupt that you propose. Purge is still active, scramble pulse I would have activated before the purge so everyone would still be blind (bugs with that aside), so nobody caught in the AOE can do much to me and I can just speed out after killing who I came to kill. Nothing's changed.

Thanatoss#5395 posted (#post-38584)

next thing is that Desperate Measures should remove it like it says in description!!!

True, if that briefing actually worked as described then purge and disrupt would stop being as godlike as they are now.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 5:37 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 5:41 a.m.

Snib, at this point, you really are not adding anything to the discussion, other than the fact that you disagree with me, and are unwilling to compromise. I have already presented several, entirely reasonable ideas that would help balance out the issues you've put forth. The point of this article, is that I am trying to present the devs with ideas on how to fix purge ram without making it underpowered. If there comes a time that you have something more relevant to say than "you're wrong", I would love to hear your opinion, however until that time comes, I am going to politely ask you to stop repeating the same message by wording it differently. The purpose for this is so the community can present various problems they see with the purge ram, and we can come up with a compromise that doesn't break it's viability as a module. You've made some good points already, however I don't really feel like carrying on an argument just for the sake of it if nothing can be accomplished with it's result. You have your opinion, I have mine. Leave it at that.


description


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 5:38 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 5:44 a.m.

Thanatoss#5395 posted (#post-38584)

Snib#1627 posted (#post-38576)

Well I'm in the camp that says purges are overall too strong, on any ship. We got enough individual disables, force people to make a choice rather than give them the easy all-in-one package.

In addition, purge ram not only gives you a super short-cooldown AOE purge, it's also the only purge in game that comes without any downside to its user (purge nuke can at least hit yourself). Slap an energy drain and other self-debuffs on it and it can stay the way it is for all I care, but currently it's a risk-free "have your cake and eat it, too" card.

I agree 100% with that one.
What is the point of drain/stasis/disruptor IF YOU CAN GET PURGE!!! It simply make other modules useless. Purges however can be made viable by making them weaker and have longer cooldowns.
next thing is that Desperate Measures should remove it like it says in description!!!
Dreadnought have now big problem there are a lot of modules that put CC but almost 0 that remove them...

Quite honestly, that's how dreadnought is. Everything is overpowered if you do it right. That is half the fun of the game, and most of the challenge. Far as making disrupt and stasis worthless, I could not disagree more. Purge is great, but it is also just as easy to counter as disrupt or stasis. For example, if you are going in for a ram, it is more than likely that someone is going to see you, and target you with say, a disrupt missile. This is their way of countering you. Now you as a rammer, can counter them by hitting them with a disrupt missile first, negating their ability to counter you and allowing you to go get a hit in. Rather than making disrupt or stasis worthless, it makes them more important because you need to use every available asset in order to ensure an effective hit. As far as desperate measures goes, by making it remove absolutely any status effect, and restoring your energy, it would make the ram cans even more powerful than they are already, plus create a whole new bucket of worms. Say you hit me with a disrupt missile, and then my desperate measures is activated. I now have all my abilities back, without the need for a cooldown, even though the disrupt effect should still be active. I can now waltz right in and ram you, essentially rendering your disrupt missile worthless.


description


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 5:52 a.m.



Draggommer, I understand that you fly little else than purge Talionis so you have a vested interest in keeping your toy but if you tell people to basically stop posting when they don't agree with you then that's not only poor etiquette but also means you probably shouldn't have started a discussion on a public forum at all.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 8:58 a.m.



Personally while i do think the purge ram is overpowered and very unfun to play against however I don't think it needs to be nerfed as hard as they are planing on nerfing it. I'm only level 15 and i've played against draggon 3 or 4 times now including one game where he had 3 afks and manged to win a 2v5 100-60. However after i finally had played against him enough to see how he liked to attack i was able to adapt and win the last match i played against him. So the purge ram is definatly beatable even by relative novices but it is incredibly frustrating to play against.

This is because currently the ram is the benefactor of 2 very broken mechanics, firstly a really silly hitbox on the rams damage making dodging it near enough impossible. Secondly purge, i really hate this statis effect as it offers 0 choices to a player after they are hit therefore meaning you might as well go to the bathroom after you get hit because either you'll come back to the respawn screen or you will still be in purge when you get back...
So what would be the ideal ways to deal with these issues well as for the damage hitbox thats an obvious fiz make the damage hitbox the same as the plasma rams. As for adding counterplay to purge the best option is to add defensive modules which activate on trigger or when hit by certain conditions for example maybe dreadnaughts could get a purge absorber add on in their 3rd or 4th slot where this module allows the dreadnaught to absorb a purge status effect to recharge its energy and boost the
power of its weapons for a brief period of time on a cooldown of about a minute. This creates a healthier dynamic where the rammer will need to be wary of dreadnaughts until either the dreadnaught reveals its module slot, utilise the cooldown difference, hit other targets or use the ram as a finisher as the damage will still be done.

An options for tac vessels could be a electromagnetic purifier pulse(yes i known the names for these modules are terrible) which removes any debuffs on ally ships within a 3km radius and is usable even when disrupted/purged. But give it a cooldown of 90secs-180secs to create counter play.

In summary i feel that the real problem is purge as it creates a very unfun experiance for the victim. Also as a side note I also think that disrupt, drain and stasis are also unfun mechanicly for the victim so i'd like to see more countermeasure modules in general not just for purge. A by product of this might be that traditional weapons like torpedo salvo's etc become indirectly better as they may not be so badly outclassed as they are currently.


Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 10:54 a.m.



Ok i have to agree with Draggommer.
Disruptor or other CC can stop rammer but if Desperate measures remove that CC then rams would be even more broken.
I agree on that purge ram shouldn't be nerfed too much but cooldown and maybe damage? Should be nerfed. Cooldown being low makes it simply too op on random matches where ppl want to ENJOY the game and not be slaughtered by veteran rank 50 purg-ramers... Longer (much longer) cooldown should lower team destroying capabilities of module but still make it viable for pros in competitive matches (where u probably will use it once anyway). AoE shouldn't be too big either (team killing module is not funny).

But problem persists. There is ton of CC skills and 0 ways to counter that. If you got purged you can go to bathroom just like evilsabre said.
Which means that only viable game play for now are 5 cottaros with purge beams!!! XD
Seriously competitive teams will all have as much purge as possible which simply shows that "purge" effects are too strong right now. Expect purge mode, that one is fair.


  1. Pick artillery cruiser 2. Play like pro 3. Get suddenly attacked by vette 4. Press energy shortcut with unmatchable reflex 5. get rek because you set energy to guns.

Posted: //
June 17, 2016, 11:17 a.m.


Updated //
June 17, 2016, 11:18 a.m.

evilsabre#2940 posted (#post-38611)

Also as a side note I also think that disrupt, drain and stasis are also unfun mechanicly for the victim so i'd like to see more countermeasure modules in general not just for purge. A by product of this might be that traditional weapons like torpedo salvo's etc become indirectly better as they may not be so badly outclassed as they are currently.

I have some sympathy for this, but care must be taken that the counters do not become too strong. The appeal of DN are the strong abilities, take those away and you risk the game play devolving into a one-dimensional slug fest.

I do think Desperate Measures should get fixed/changed to remove debuffs as per its description to give you a fighting chance at low health, but otherwise breaking out of applied debuffs should never be the norm lest you render them pointless.

Besides, you can already break out of Drain with an Energy Generator and Surge Drones, out of Stasis with e.g. Nerves of Steel briefing, only disrupt and scramble are truly permanent and the latter can sort of be worked around.

Thanatoss#5395 posted (#post-38615)

Ok i have to agree with Draggommer.
Disruptor or other CC can stop rammer but if Desperate measures remove that CC then rams would be even more broken.

I disagree with that. If you disrupted the ram can but stayed in front of it while you shot it to Desperate Measures levels that's entirely your own fault.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover

This forum is restricted, posts cannot be made.