FORUMS


Just say NO to tiers!



Posted: //
July 15, 2016, 10:07 a.m.


Updated //
July 15, 2016, 10:08 a.m.

chryseusAquila#3803 posted (#post-40622)

Regardless of that I think we just have to accpet the fact that a Tier system is a necessity in a F2P.

There's plenty F2P games without one. Even in the same genre. Most people here will know or have heard of Fractured Space and that has fully horizontal progression and in the last update they even entirely dropped their tech tree and removed manufacturer-specific XP (and actually XP in general), i.e. going in the very opposite direction of DN.

Which approach ends up being the more profitable I do not know - DN's model will lose them players for sure, but whether the income from progression boosters will offset that is something I cannot say but they will certainly have been considering very carefully.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover


Posted: //
July 15, 2016, 10:28 a.m.



If you decide to implement tiers, please do it immediately. That way I can stop playing this game now, before I'm way more emotionally invested, and deeper in the hole with money I wasted. Thanks.


Posted: //
July 15, 2016, 11:32 a.m.



If you want a refund ask for it, they do give them out.


Don't get mad - git gud.


Posted: //
July 16, 2016, 2:39 a.m.



DOGMA#8169 posted (#post-40636)

If you want a refund ask for it, they do give them out.

The thing is... I really don't want a refund. I want the game to stay good. I really like this game and can't wait to buy the next pack of hero ships, with real money. But if they turn this game into something intolerable, I want to know as soon as possible so I can get out. I want this game to succeed and the company to do well, because I fully understand it's a business. But the argument that tiers represent the only way to make money... is completely false.


Posted: //
July 16, 2016, 5:13 a.m.


Updated //
July 16, 2016, 5:36 a.m.

Hi all,

i dont play WoT or the other mentioned games. So i have absolutly no clue what that "Tier" System means. Can please some describe it for me in short and understandable words for someone who just doesent know???

I really think the gameplay mechanic is good as it is right now. Even if u are placed against a lvl 50 player and you are just, lets say lvl 20. U can make ur kills or be real threat to them if u play in team and play good.

I dont want this to be a time eating grind game. I want to start it and play. Thats the attractivity of the game to me.

I dont want this to be a pay to win game. I want to spend money on it, but only for cosmetics like more impressive hulls, bridges, cannons, paintings, etc.

Edit:

I read a bit more about in the forums, but still cant get the "idea" behind it. Is it all about endgame money sink? Or is it to "balance" out the different player skills? Or is it to make u buy currency to equip ur things faster?

Wouldnt that mean, that if time goes by, the main player base would just rise up in tiers and leave fewer player back in the lower tiers, meaning longer waiting time for them to get a game?

Wouldnt that mean i have to buy the same things over and over again just in a slightly better version?

Really thankful for your explanations!!!


“I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die.”


Posted: //
July 16, 2016, 6 a.m.



Microstar#9116 posted (#post-40701)

Wouldnt that mean, that if time goes by, the main player base would just rise up in tiers and leave fewer player back in the lower tiers, meaning longer waiting time for them to get a game?

Wouldnt that mean i have to buy the same things over and over again just in a slightly better version?

Yep, sounds like you understood it. Although as to the first point: if repair costs scale up high enough you force players to either play lower tier content to make a profit or to pay for premium (or to leave the game), so that usually brings some of them back down.


My Dreadnought tools and resources: Dreadnought Datamine | Snib's Dreadnought Steam Launcher | Hangar background noise remover


Posted: //
July 16, 2016, 8:45 a.m.



Microstar#9116 posted (#post-40701)

Hi all,

i dont play WoT or the other mentioned games. So i have absolutly no clue what that "Tier" System means. Can please some describe it for me in short and understandable words for someone who just doesent know???

I really think the gameplay mechanic is good as it is right now. Even if u are placed against a lvl 50 player and you are just, lets say lvl 20. U can make ur kills or be real threat to them if u play in team and play good.

I dont want this to be a time eating grind game. I want to start it and play. Thats the attractivity of the game to me.

I dont want this to be a pay to win game. I want to spend money on it, but only for cosmetics like more impressive hulls, bridges, cannons, paintings, etc.

Edit:

I read a bit more about in the forums, but still cant get the "idea" behind it. Is it all about endgame money sink? Or is it to "balance" out the different player skills? Or is it to make u buy currency to equip ur things faster?

Wouldnt that mean, that if time goes by, the main player base would just rise up in tiers and leave fewer player back in the lower tiers, meaning longer waiting time for them to get a game?

Wouldnt that mean i have to buy the same things over and over again just in a slightly better version?

Really thankful for your explanations!!!

All free to play games are money and time sinks. They have well placed and planned hurdles that encourage players at every turn to purchase some sort of premium items or currency to stay ahead of the curve. If you forgo said items there is usually MASSIVE grinds and time sinks to slog through that punish you at every turn for not buying said items. There is also going to be tiered ships now with higher tiers being superior to lower tiers and you will get placed into matches against higher tier players. While I have not played WoT I have played other games that adopted its pay model and this type of game play can get old really fast. High tier players who have nothing but time and money on their hands just stomp all over everyone else. Much of the competitive aspect of the game is lost, for example you will probably never see WoT in e-sports. Dreadnought currently only has 5 tiers planned with suggested matches for tier 1-2, tier 2-4, and finally tier 5 is supposedly going be by itself. Finally there are fleet repair cost (aka in game money sink) that is designed to slow your progression and punishes losing players. It is one of the most un-fun game play mechanics ever developed but is becoming more common in the F2P games.


Posted: //
July 16, 2016, 11:11 a.m.



I'm strongly aversed to tiers for two reasons:
- Reason #1: Robocraft.
- Reason #2: Star Conflict.

Both of these games are slowly dying. Both used to be absolutely fantastic games. Both now have awful reviews on Steam and aren't a whole lot of fun to play.

People have already cited the reasons why. Tier systems divide the playerbase. While this is a good thing, to a certain extent, as it separates the best players from the newest players, you don't want this separation to be so cut-and-dry and complete. Why?

Because new players learn from old players. Think about it. If you were on a team, and 3 players were veterans from ye olden days of the Alpha, 1 player was a mid-level who'd joined the game a few months ago, and 1 was brand-spanking new, AND the other team had the same composition (a job that Matchmaking should be doing), would you feel the game was unbalanced?

No! The teams are evenly matched. It doesn't matter that the more experienced players are matched with a newbie. That newbie's going to learn a whole lot from those vets, and so's the midlevel.

Tier systems prevent this kind of learning. So long as the matchmaking creates even teams, it doesn't matter whether or not high-levels and low-levels are mixed.

As the playerbase becomes divided, what you end up with is a big concentration of players at the endgame, who love the game and have played it since the early days, and a big concentration of players at the earlygame, who have just joined and are trying the game out. AND, a big gulf in the middle with very few midlevels. Because, you're either progressing towards the endgame, or you're trying the game out, deciding it's not for you, and leaving it behind. Because of this bottleneck, player retention goes down. Less players reach the endgame because it's so far away, and they get bored of the game because they're playing with the same people over and over again in the midgame, and they feel like, once they reach the endgame, they're just gonna get slammed by the folks who have been there since the beginning of time.

I would personally prefer horizontal progression. Make it extensive. Excessive. So many options, so, SO many options. Most of them are cosmetic. Some of them involve shifts in stats that allow you to tool your ship exactly to your preference.

Tiers... I feel like tiers would slowly kill this game. And I don't want that to happen. I like this game, it has a lot of potential.


Posted: //
July 17, 2016, 3:42 p.m.



Honestly, This game really DOES need tiers, but not in the way that is functions now. The better players should obviously get the better ships, as they earned it, and equally the better parts. As it stands, anyone can get any ship provided they play long enough, regardless how good or bad they are.

If levels are actually going to stay part of this game, then levels should be fluxuant, as to represent your actual skill.
There should be no reason that mid game or late game can be over run with absolutely horrible players that either don't care about the team, don't understand how to be a team or refuse to work as a team. It makes no sense, to me, that these players should be able to coast through to the endgame levels and get some of the better ships and parts.

Where as on the flip side, many good players are forced to suffer through the pub matches with above people, completely restricted from leveling due to the poor teams. Not only does this make the leveling system pointless, but it also, over time, causes the community to become toxic.

In short, if there is no actual skill based ranking, and your matches are based off level, then there is no reason to limit items to high level, as its not a reward. Its a trophy of having played enough matches.


Posted: //
July 17, 2016, 4:10 p.m.



For those against a tiered system, I have ONE question..

How do you expect new players and lesser ships and stats to compete again those older experienced ships and players then?

You want to complain about a tier system but offer no solution to that dilemna.. Without some kind of system in place, explain YOUR solution to the problem because I would love to hear it.

Months down the road when you have all your experience and beefed up ships, what is going to keep young new players from joining when all they end up being is fodder for you to laugh in glee because you have all the power?


Take it light...

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