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Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 9:30 a.m.


Updated //
July 14, 2016, 2:43 p.m.

Updated list
So as most of you know by now the devs have decided to copy and paste the pay model of World of Tanks. I myself despise this type of model as I feel it is nothing but a greedy cash grab with huge hurdles in place to entice players to buy some sort premium currency, XP boost, or some other carrot on a stick item. Now I understand that the devs are here to make some money but I think there are better ways of doing it.

What they are proposing now:
1. No more competitive play due to ship tiers.
2. Borderline pay to win items like premium ammo/weapons.
3. Tier classes that have advantages over lower classes.
4. Massive amounts of grinding if you don't shell out your cash for carrot on stick item.
5. Splitting the player base into even smaller parts.
6. Fleet repair cost. Oh joy...
7. Vertical progression tree.
*8. Losing team is now punished even more by lower rewards and more repair cost.

What I propose.
1. One time payment to get into the game.
2. Vanity item shop: Weapon graphic colors, engine graphic colors, shield graphic colors, paint jobs, ship skins, avatar taunts, avatar clothing, etc.
3. Free expansion packs that are funded by the above items to keep the game fresh.
4. Balanced and competitive gameplay. I want to see this game in e-sports tournaments.
5. Horizontal progression tree.
6. Player base is not split up but instead uses some sort hidden MMR system to match players.
7. A less punishing progression system. Perhaps one that unlocks extra weapon functionality or effects that can be selected for example: After causing X amount of damage with nuclear missiles you unlock the purge nuke which can be equipped in the hangar.


Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 9:49 a.m.


Updated //
July 14, 2016, 11:08 a.m.

Hi, WarViper1337! Thank you for your feedback! I do like a lot of your ideas! I did want to clear up a few things just so any miscommunication on our part, doesn't affect any great ideas that you have shared.

The ship tiers are to help keep matches balanced. This will prevent the issue of a level 1 player going against a level 50 player. However you can continue to play a tier 1 ship if you want to stay within that bracket.

During the stream the question was brought up about premium ammo, they confirmed that this will not be happening.

Overall you will want to work towards obtaining that tier 5 ship, as it does have a lot of great benefits. The new bracket system will help keep this from affecting matches with lower tier players.

We do not have a P2W system. While you may benefit from certain features that are provided, you do not need these to obtain end game content.

Currently the beta is limited by design. As we move closer to Dreadnought 2.0 and open beta. You will see more players in-game. While it may seem like it would be limiting now. When we have a much larger player base, this should increase the amount of players in each tier. We appreciate the feedback! smile



Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 10:38 a.m.



Well, I can see why you're concerned, but we don't really know how any of this is going to play out.

WarViper1337#8868 posted (#post-40502)

hat they are proposing now:
No more competitive play due to ship tiers.

I kind of think things will be far more competitive in tiers than they are now. At least you won't be facing level 40+ captains in your brand new level 5 Gora.

Borderline pay to win items like premium ammo/weapons.

I didn't see any mention of this at all in the stream - I could have missed it though.

Tier classes that have advantages over lower classes.

Well, maybe - especially in the middle - but we really have no idea how modules will be balanced between ships in different tiers.

I know there's an urge to seize on things that worry you about this, but really, all i'm seeing so far is speculation - I suggest we wait for real numbers and something more concrete than a mocked up placeholder screenshot of a skill tree before any pitchforks start getting sharpened.


Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 2:23 p.m.


Updated //
July 15, 2016, 2:16 p.m.

Draex#3006 posted (#post-40505)

The ship tiers are to help keep matches balanced. This will prevent the issue of a level 1 player going against a level 50 player. However you can continue to play a tier 1 ship if you want to stay within that bracket.

Overall you will want to work towards obtaining that tier 5 ship, as it does have a lot of great benefits. The new bracket system will help keep this from affecting matches with lower tier players.

Edited, accidentally put what I said into the quote,
This would work if MM was on a tier by tier basis, but unfortunately, no. I believe the proposed MM brackets were Tier 1 and 2, Tier 2, 3, and 4, and a seperate tier 5. So you will have players with objectively better ships playing against people who have objectively worse ships. And what if I want to use my Talionis (renamed to Vindicta in the latest patch)? That is technically a later unlock as it is right now, do I have to be in that higher bracket now? If not, tehn there will be plaers playing visually and based on the primary the same ship, but one is better because it is "higher-tier".


Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 2:50 p.m.



That is exactly my issue with this system. You can't claim better balance when the higher tier ships are better than lower tier. The only way this would work is if each tier is locked into its own bracket which is not the case right now. Also they are now throwing salt on the wound of the losing team by giving them lower rewards on top of more repair cost. In the live stream they keep joking around with "Well if players leave the game then that means we messed up" but the fact is that if players leave the game then the chances of ever getting more players back is almost zero.


Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 2:59 p.m.


Updated //
July 14, 2016, 5:26 p.m.

If you want to prevent high-level players from pubstomping low level players, just tier matches based on player level.

We don't want brackets, or to have to work towards a tier 5 ship. That's boring and grindy and why I stopped playing World of Thunderwartanks.

If you want my money, offer cosmetics and *only * cosmetics. I'll buy them. I'm a sucker for looking cool. But I won't pay into a game with P2W, and that's exactly what boosters/premium ammo/repair-costs-coincidentally-you-can-buy-ingame-currency-with-real-money are. The rhetoric about how it isn't P2W is nonsense, and we all know it's nonsense because it's been around for years.

The ship (ha, ha) has sailed for the World of Tanks business model. Everyone who wanted to capitalize upon it and improve upon it has, and the gaming community at large is tired of it. If you make this game a World of Tanks clone, it will fade into obscurity.

This game is interesting because it's a relatively casual spaceship brawler with fun customization options and sidegrade ships. If you turn it into a tiered grindfest, its playerbase will die.


Posted: //
July 14, 2016, 7:08 p.m.



I understand a lot these concerns wholeheartedly. One of the things that I love about this game is that new players such as myself can have great fun alongside the more veteran players and still feel like I'm making a contribution to the team. One thing I have felt lacking is a substantial feeling of progression. As I tend to go into support roles in these types of games, I already know what it is I want and I'm just going through the numbers just for certain items. If for example experience was applied to the pilot, and in turn this xp could then be spent on boosting certain aspects of your pilot, boosting energy recharge rates or reductions in ability cool-downs. Then that way you can truly customise your character and make them more unique. Another example, make your pilot more suited for pure attack with higher than normal damage, or boost defence of your ships shields to be a tank that draws enemy fire while your friend, who specialised in stealth abilites has snuck around to flank. Also, as you go up in the tiers, how about a nice new freshly pressed uniform to show off your rank, with some other vanity items that can be purchased for real currency. As for the idea of fleet repair costs, bad idea as it would break immersion for me. ( Last time I checked the navy didn't bill Captain to repair their vessels). But... what if you and a few friends had decided to break away from one of the games factions to create your very own. Have all factions competing against each other aswell as ones controlled by the ingame factions that currently exist. On the topic of factions, not much is given about them. I only know their names by the small descriptions given in the ship parts information. I know in time this will be filled out more as the main purpose of the beta is to get the game mechanics up and running first, just please please.. don't make it where I have to go elsewhere to learn about the games lore.. hated that aspect of a certain fps game I shall not mention. For matchmaking I agree that captains of similar tiers should be sought out 1st by the system, then if theirs not enough players to fill the game then seek those of a fewer levels. Also to help balance things out a little, If player groups do join a match, have it where their levels are evened out across the whole fleet, for instance, if a tier 50 captain played with his friends who were tier 43, 36 and the new guy who was level 10... the the system game would automatically adjust stats so the whole team was even, so all captains would enter a battle as tier 34-35. So what I suggest is not to have the ships dicate the tiers much, but the abilities of the players themselves. At each tier be able to assign gained xp into different areas. 1 area to start, such as armor increase, energy efficiency, or faster reload times then when you reach tier 2, you can apply into 2 -3 different areas. Now you can upspec weapon damage, missile travel speeds or the amount anti missles lasers can lock to. Also I recommend not applying a limit, Captains never stop learning how to better their ships. Ships become our babies and we know every nut & bolt, so the more you use a certain ship, the better it performs in battles and can stand up to a little bit more punishment. Then in time Captains of a very high level can go into epic battles where the things that you have learnt are truly put to the test. Can your 2 year old Destroyer go against that 1 year old Dreadnought, but It's Captains been flying for 3.. then that way players themselves can become heros in the game and have their own customised setups on the store for people to purchase. I feel customisation will be a big thing in this regard and vanity items are a must have if your mugshots going to be public as well as having your ship blinged out to the max.

Anyway.. that was my 2 cents worth on this, sorry I went on abit but I'm very passionate about this game. It has been a long time since a game was this fun for me. I get bored of alot of arena type games but this one has me hooked. The basic gameplay is addictive, fun and playing against the "Big Boys" is awesome, and still feeling like I can contribute. Keep up the good work and looking forward so much for what comes in the future.

"I was a mechanic in the Navy. And mechanics in the Navy are like mechanics in airlines. You may have more stripes than I do, but you don't know how to fix the airplane".


Posted: //
July 15, 2016, 2:28 a.m.



Draex#3006 posted (#post-40505)
The ship tiers are to help keep matches balanced. This will prevent the issue of a level 1 player going against a level 50 player. However you can continue to play a tier 1 ship if you want to stay within that bracket.

Let's see how it will prevent the issue of new players to go against experienced squads in higher tiers (while the squad even has 1 tier more). Oh right, the newbs will just get crushed even harder.
Guess everyone just has to stay in tier 1 forever (why make tiers then?). Though the others will just chase them there...

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