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Now available: Dev Talk #1 - Progression 2.0 (and the new guy introduces himself)



Posted: //
July 19, 2016, 5:56 p.m.


Updated //
July 19, 2016, 5:59 p.m.

Greetings Captains,

I would like to use this opportunity to introduce myself: my name is Timo and I am the new community manager for Germany.

“Whaaaaaat?! We’re getting a German community manager?! But there is no German version of the game yet,” you might say and you would be right. We are currently working on getting the game, the forums, the website and anything else that is needed localized and ready for the German community. In the meantime, I will be working with the rest of the team to make sure that this awesome community gets the love and care it needs and things are ready to expand to more and more languages.

About me, I’m from Germany and a German native speaker. I have worked in the free-to-play sector before, I was part of the community team for Warframe for several years and after a short time working on Forge of Empires, I was drawn back into space. I am absolutely excited to step onto the bridge of a Dreadnought and be a part of this great team.
Here’s to a great game, a great community and a great time together!

Dev Talk #1

And of course, I don’t come empty handed. I am excited to present you the first Dev Talk.
In this first issue of our new series, I sat down with Peter, the Game Director for Dreadnought, and we had a talk about the upcoming changes in Progression 2.0.

You can find the article HERE.

We’re looking forward to read your comments and feedback. Let us know what you think by answering to this thread.


Senior Community Manager, Europe "Everything Is A Nail. All You Need Is A Hammer."


Posted: //
July 19, 2016, 6:14 p.m.


Updated //
July 19, 2016, 6:15 p.m.

Note; I had to turn my browser soom to 250% to be able to see those pictures... Please allow zoom clicks on pictures (or external links to them embedded in your news)

RE: Example of Tier 2 dreadnought.... Please don't force torpedo usage.

  • As it stands, torpedoes in game (other then light torps from the destroyer) do NOT home on targets... they are in essence dumbfire projectiles... useless against all but the slow moving snips. Until this is changed (or if a bug, fixed), do NOT force torpedo usage over missile usage (which actually work)

Re; unlocking the same module for the next tier of ship.

  • Yes, this would 'feel' bad to a player. I would highly recommend that once you unlock a given module, either A. Its unlocked for everything, every tier... or B, if the later tiers grant that module a power increase (more missiles launched, more dmg, whatever).. then when you buy the lower tiers, owning them should grant a discount to the re-purchase of the 'upgraded' module

  • OR, you could simply require the player to have bought the T1 missile launcher (example) before allowing them to unlock the T2, T3, T4, etc etc.... and simply 'price' the modules cheaper then they otherwise would be (eg; Vulture missiles might total cost 4000 FP for all 5 tiers, but the Purge nuke, a T5 only item, might cost 3500 FP outright for just the single module)

  • Basically, if the functionality is 100% the same on the module.. across tiers, then unlocking it once should unlock it for all. Unlocking the SAME thing multiple times does NOT feel good unless it is INSANELY cheap.... an example of this is Planetside 2 gun scopes... Every gun has its own scopes, all scopes are the same.. but you have to rebuy them.... However, a gun costs 700-1000 FP, a scope for the gun costs 30. It doesn't 'hurt' my pocket book so much to buy something for 30fp every so often on a similar item to one I already own.
    -p-
    Monetization ... still talking fleet repair costs smile uhg.


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 2:08 a.m.


Updated //
July 20, 2016, 3:33 a.m.

Re; unlocking the same module for the next tier of ship.

  • Yes, this would 'feel' bad to a player. I would highly recommend that once you unlock a given module, either A. Its unlocked for everything, every tier... or B, if the later tiers grant that module a power increase (more missiles launched, more dmg, whatever).. then when you buy the lower tiers, owning them should grant a discount to the re-purchase of the 'upgraded' module

  • OR, you could simply require the player to have bought the T1 missile launcher (example) before allowing them to unlock the T2, T3, T4, etc etc.... and simply 'price' the modules cheaper then they otherwise would be (eg; Vulture missiles might total cost 4000 FP for all 5 tiers, but the Purge nuke, a T5 only item, might cost 3500 FP outright for just the single module)

  • Basically, if the functionality is 100% the same on the module.. across tiers, then unlocking it once should unlock it for all. Unlocking the SAME thing multiple times does NOT feel good unless it is INSANELY cheap.... an example of this is Planetside 2 gun scopes... Every gun has its own scopes, all scopes are the same.. but you have to rebuy them.... However, a gun costs 700-1000 FP, a scope for the gun costs 30. It doesn't 'hurt' my pocket book so much to buy something for 30fp every so often on a similar item to one I already own.
    -p-
    Monetization ... still talking fleet repair costs smile uhg.

I concur on pretty much everything. (PS2 ftw, btw. Its a great example where you can go in the game without any progression, still be an asset to your team, but still want to unlock some improvements. I spent loads of money on that game, but you clearly don't need to.)

Maintenance costs
Come on, just forget about that, k? :-) It ruined WoT and WT for me (casual player speaking). In the end, I mostly used the first few tiers, because I didn't have to think about stuff like maintenance too much and could use my favourite vehicles as much as I wanted.

Progression 2.0
I am not sure I understood. So if I want to play with Jupiter Arms ships, I'll progress their tree. But if I want to play Corvettes (of any manufacturer) I still have to progress manufacturer trees anyway? Thus, I would have to progress in the manufacturers tree? Or will the trees br more like bushes where I can unlock a tier 2 Corvette by playing that manufacturer's tier 1 ship OR any tier 1 Corvette? (Btw, seems that the Athos is tier 1. Please keep it like this.) :-)

Monetization
The way it is now is good, from my perspective at least. You can buy vanity items, but also modules and ships you unlocked. For me, with very limited time available to play, the latter is a big plus. I don't need to grind the funds to buy a ship I unlocked. And the pricing is reasonable.

On a side note: What happens with ships and modules I bought with hard money? Will they be available as soon as I unlock them or will the currency be refunded?

Hero ships
Good ideas. Only little problem I see: The founders' pack contains no ship by Jupiter Arms (or did I miss sth?). So anyone who wants to boost that manufacturer's tree with a hero ship will have to get a new one.

Ps: Please bear with me on typos. Writing on my phone on my way to work.

Edit pps: Hallo aus der Schweiz. :-)


"My rule is: If you meet the weakest vessel, attack; if it is a vessel equal to yours, attack; and if it is stronger than yours, also attack…"
- Admiral Stepan O. Makarov (1849-1904)


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 4:22 a.m.



Anything you've bought with money / GP will be refunded back to GP (at whatever price you bought it at, because they may change prices) upon resets of progression.

The big 5 ship founders pack.. will hopefully have at least 1 ship in each of the 3 big manufacturers... but it might be just 2... We will see.

The one they show'd us had 2 of the 5 current hero ships in it (T4 and T5 IIRC)


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 5:51 a.m.



Da hat aber jemand noch ganz schön spät gearbeitet... smile

Schön, dass wir jetzt einen deutschen Community Manager haben. Das macht doch Hoffnung auf eine deutsche Community. Es könnte ja einfach ein Sub-Forum aufgemacht werden. Klingt für mich nicht nach großem Aufwand.

Mir persönlich ist es nicht besonders wichtig. Kann ganz gut Englisch, aber ich kenne aus anderen Spieleforen viele Deutsche, die da pingelig sind.


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 8:12 a.m.



Schön zu sehen, das Spieler, die wenig Englisch sprechen, hier jetzt auch einen Ansprechpartner haben.

I've already detailed my opinions on the new system here in an answer to rickdeckard, and my thoughts on repairs in this thread, and I think reposting it would be unseemly; My opinion hasn't actually changed with this new information.

Just one new point, now that that has been detailed:
If you have module trees for every ship, would you consider adding a few that could be unlocked for all ships of that tier?
No matter how useful they actually are, I like the option to choose and create whacky combinations.

And I've laid out my thoughts on fleet repair in a rather detailed thread

The more I look at this, the more I get the feeling you're sacrificing "gameplay" for "progression". :/


We need "Alpha" and "Beta" Camo Patterns! Just plaster the Word all over the ships hull in various sizes and angles !
Link: Artillery Overview


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 9:52 a.m.



About the Dev-Talk:
- "unlocking things you dont want" then showing a tree with "arrows" pointing at stuff, wait what, this contradicts itself
- tiering of fleets, no mixing of ships between match making brackets, or my tier 5 + 4x tier 1 fleet is ready to steamroll newbies because it lets me queue for tier 3 or below
- hero ships, a bit sad that their intended use as a provider of vanity-geometry got scrapped, the only reason for me to buy them
- fleet repair costs, the wording of "not lock you out of the game" can be understood as, you need to play lower tiers then, if this happens regularly it could create matchmaking problems for the higher tiers, because there are no "victims" to slaughter because the competetive scene will queue as groups to minimize repair cost grind, can get abused by people with a lot of time/money (aww my team with the one that killed me last match lost because my cat walked over my keyboard and I could not heal him) and may keep casual players, or people with not a lot of time that do not want to invest money out of it
- getting locked to a single manufacturer and probably ship will either increase the "grind" time enormously or lead to balance h*ll, because my Jupiter Arms Monarch gets kited at 6km range by a Zmey without chance of retaliation
- monetisation, esentially linked to my points above, if they are not a concern, this could work, if I feel I cannot play tier 5 games without money or I need more than half a year for the progression of at least all three dreadnoughts, I see no more interest in it


German rant:

Hallo Timo, hoffe hast nen dickes Fell, perfekter Moment um hier einzusteigen. =D


Recruit Engineer


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 10:14 a.m.



Thanks for all your feedback so far! The whole community team is keeping a close eye to the forums and we'll make sure that your ideas, your criticism and opinions are being heard.

As it was mentioned in the article, at lot of details about the new system have not yet been decided on. We'll make sure to incorporate as much feedback from the community as possible and even after releasing the system, we welcome your thoughts on what could be improved.

I am also curious what you think about the format. Would like to see more articles like that, in which someone from the community team has a chat with a developer to talk about the game in general and potential upcoming features?

And lastly, for our German players: we'll soon add a German sub-forum for sure. Until then, please keep your answers in the general forums in English so everyone can participate. Once we have our own little playground, we can talk German all we want smile


Senior Community Manager, Europe "Everything Is A Nail. All You Need Is A Hammer."


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 12:23 p.m.


Updated //
July 20, 2016, 12:29 p.m.

Man the more I read about 2.0 the less I like. In fairness I'm still totally willing to experience it first before I completely condemn it.

I like the idea behind the progression tree but not the tiers and the dividing up of the 50 ships. This idea of somewhat borrowing World of Tank's XP system I absolutely hate.

Again though... please stop claiming it's 50 ships. It's not. It's 15 ships divided 3 ways. You did design 50 different hulls but you tied them to all the same ships. IE there are 5 Valcours. Then you further reduced their unique nature by locking them to different tiers.

I mean in the end are they just cosmetic options for the original 15? Or do they actually perform differently? Even if they do... if they are locked by tiers... I just don't see the point. It seems like a waste of assets if in the end the final roster is still divided by tier. An example being... a T1 will never fight a T5. I get that you're saying a T1 wouldn't stand a change against a T5... but what if I loved the look of the T1? Will you let me use it's model on my T5? If so that goes back to the questionable use of "50 ships."

Or are you actually saying that there are 50 ships total and they aren't all just variants of the originals. Like there are literally 10 tacticals, 10 corvettes, 10 destroyers, 10 dreads, 10 artillery cruisers... and they all have Tier 1 through Tier 5 variants?

If that is the case consider me impressed again... but also know that it's been incredibly unclear and right now does not sound that way. So it's really important to clear that bit up.

It's kind of a complicated thing to ask in text. Basically if I'm maxed out. Will I have 50 different ships to choose from and PLAY in T5? Or will it be 15?


Posted: //
July 20, 2016, 3:59 p.m.



Jeslis#8939 posted (#post-40973)

  • Basically, if the functionality is 100% the same on the module.. across tiers, then unlocking it once should unlock it for all. Unlocking the SAME thing multiple times does NOT feel good unless it is INSANELY cheap.... an example of this is Planetside 2 gun scopes... Every gun has its own scopes, all scopes are the same.. but you have to rebuy them.... However, a gun costs 700-1000 FP, a scope for the gun costs 30. It doesn't 'hurt' my pocket book so much to buy something for 30fp every so often on a similar item to one I already own.
    -p-
    Monetization ... still talking fleet repair costs smile uhg.

PLanetside 2 is an example of a good system of equipment unlocking. It's not perfect by any means, but it works well within the game.

But. PS2 uses a sidegrade model for it's weapons and equipment. None of the infantry weapons in the main classes are outright "better" than others, but they are better in specific situations. As an example, with the VS Assault Rifles, and HV45 will chew things up at close ranges, but will be beaten easily at longer ranges by a player using a CME. It's a situational balance model and - generally - it works well.

In PS2, a bad player with maxed out suit and equipment slots and a fully upgraded weapon will always lose to a skilled player with basic starting equipment.

But the problem is I don't see this happening with Dreadnought's new model. It just looks like it's filled with nasty little positive-feedback features that are going to wreck newer or weaker players time and time again.

Nothing will kill of the game quicker than killing it for new players. Veteran players don't maintain the game, it's the new blood continually coming it that maintains it. Think CS:GO is kept alive by CS 1.6 players? Or the hundreds of thousands that came in their wake?


Exitus acta probat.

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