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Hardmode: Realistic Damage Models



Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 1:07 a.m.



UnLimiTeD#2482 posted (#post-2484)

Selerox#6711 posted (#post-2478)

Maybe a later inclusion, but I see no reason whatsoever to mess with a perfectly functional system that's easy to learn for new players.

You might call me a madman, but that is part of the reason why I like things more complex.
The learning experience, the regular challenge, having more to think about then when to engage and disengage, is part of the thrill.
Too many games are just easy to learn, and after a few days I feel I have understood everything, and move on.

In short, I like complex systems because they take more effort to learn.
No one's asking to implement it now, or even soon, even less to make it mandatory.
It's so players who have taken in and mastered the gameplay can delve into details others might not want to concern themselves with, like Advanced rules in many board- and tabletop-games.
I think everyone agrees that comes after the basics.

Which is my reasoning behind the potential difficulties compared to the benefits. You not only give a challenge to those who desire the thrill of difficult games, but you also give other players something to strive for. Something to keep their attention when the normal games become a rigorous spam of the same "I'm zerging their spawn!" (Not an example of this game but one to explain the added tactics). This gives players an appeal when they grow tired of regular games and wish for something harder, or more realistic.


"Life is the only thing worth taking, everything else can be bought with credits."


Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 1:10 a.m.



snoopy_jr#8130 posted (#post-2501)

I think there should be critical hit "areas" located on each ship. When those areas receive a hit, that damage would be increased as a critical hit. That would add more aiming and protection of those areas in order to keep yourself from taking increased damage by being struck in those areas. I wouldn't really call for a hard mode as much as integrating the basic idea into the global game mode.

Your suggestion is a watered down version of what I believe Dreadnought can be.(Not meaning that offensively) As I stated before, I believe that this game can break new ground and snare more than the die-hard SciFi buffs to include more. Criticals would be implimented in this system I am asking for. My real goal is for more than "Ha! I knew where to hit you to deal more damage!" but real rewards and punishments for successful tactics and failed defensives.


"Life is the only thing worth taking, everything else can be bought with credits."


Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 2:47 a.m.



It's more than that too. If we implemented strong/weak zones as you suggest you'd see some cool new tactics from players. Imagine Dreadnoughts lining up like old ships of the line, or corvettes taking long attack runs just to get a shot at a Dreadnought's engines, or maybe assaults facing the nose of their ship towards the enemy making them super aggressive.
It's a really cool system and something we feel could work with Dreadnought. I can't promise anything yet but keep asking, you may see it one day :)


Nathan "nwood" Wood
Senior Level Designer, YAGER


Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 5:14 a.m.



.... So that essentially means "keep bugging us until we can't ignore it anymore" ? :p

In any case, nice to hear. ;)


We need "Alpha" and "Beta" Camo Patterns! Just plaster the Word all over the ships hull in various sizes and angles !
Link: Artillery Overview


Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 8:22 a.m.




Posted: //
April 26, 2015, 10:37 a.m.



Tetsu-Amada#3909 posted (#post-2505)

snoopy_jr#8130 posted (#post-2501)

I think there should be critical hit "areas" located on each ship. When those areas receive a hit, that damage would be increased as a critical hit. That would add more aiming and protection of those areas in order to keep yourself from taking increased damage by being struck in those areas. I wouldn't really call for a hard mode as much as integrating the basic idea into the global game mode.

Your suggestion is a watered down version of what I believe Dreadnought can be.(Not meaning that offensively) As I stated before, I believe that this game can break new ground and snare more than the die-hard SciFi buffs to include more. Criticals would be implimented in this system I am asking for. My real goal is for more than "Ha! I knew where to hit you to deal more damage!" but real rewards and punishments for successful tactics and failed defensives.

Seems like the same idea to me, although I may have presented it i but less clearly. I just don't see a need for two game modes when it can be applied to the entire multiplayer side of the game.


These are not the droids you are looking for.


Posted: //
April 27, 2015, 7:56 a.m.



Well, mostly because it definitely won't be in the release for what we know and it'd be a drastic change to gameplay for everyone then.
The key concept of area targeting should not necessarily be just more damage, but other effects.
Hit the Engines? Lowered manoeuvrability.
Bridge? Delay on activating abilities.
Take a lot of damage to one side? Better turn around, the armour is eroding. (that'd be very advanced, just pulling examples off my head)

The main difference between what he and you suggested is the long term implications. Whether either or is a desirable thing remains to be tested.


We need "Alpha" and "Beta" Camo Patterns! Just plaster the Word all over the ships hull in various sizes and angles !
Link: Artillery Overview


Posted: //
April 27, 2015, 11:51 a.m.



UnLimiTeD#2482 posted (#post-2526)

Well, mostly because it definitely won't be in the release for what we know and it'd be a drastic change to gameplay for everyone then.
The key concept of area targeting should not necessarily be just more damage, but other effects.
Hit the Engines? Lowered manoeuvrability.
Bridge? Delay on activating abilities.
Take a lot of damage to one side? Better turn around, the armour is eroding. (that'd be very advanced, just pulling examples off my head)

The main difference between what he and you suggested is the long term implications. Whether either or is a desirable thing remains to be tested.

That is exactly why the testing phase is so important, to test things like this idea. I like your ideas about hitting different modules should trigger effects. Time will only tell if anything like this will be implemented.


These are not the droids you are looking for.


Posted: //
May 3, 2015, 1:45 a.m.



nwood#2177 posted (#post-2506)

It's more than that too. If we implemented strong/weak zones as you suggest you'd see some cool new tactics from players. Imagine Dreadnoughts lining up like old ships of the line, or corvettes taking long attack runs just to get a shot at a Dreadnought's engines, or maybe assaults facing the nose of their ship towards the enemy making them super aggressive.
It's a really cool system and something we feel could work with Dreadnought. I can't promise anything yet but keep asking, you may see it one day :)

Glad to hear nwood!

And yes it would need to be separated into a Hardmode rather than integrated with the normal play for this creates a more advanced means of combat and would be extremely displeasing to newer players. How would you feel jumping into a game, be in the process of learning what your ship can do, and at that time be farmed like mad because everyone knows your weakspots and you are unable to even use your basic skills due to constant debuffs. By organizing this system into a Hardmode rather than a Normal Play you can establish a Goal for players who are growing tired of the lack of challenge in the Normal Play. This gives incentive for players to REMAIN in the game for years to come over those who join a game till they grow bored and understand all the mechanics of the game. For example, World of Warcraft has a constant decline in player-base until the coming of a new Expansion Pack. Players then join en-mass, play until they have pretty much seen all the content, then quit till the next Expansion arrives due to boredom. This is merely one example. This type of Playing is quite regular with games of any type. A new game that is interesting will get tons of "New-Game Hype" but then fade into obscurity after 1-2 years when half the playerbase gets bored. By implementing this system as a Hardmode you prolong this process as players during the "New-Game Hype" will be playing in Normal Mode, grinding down the basics and mastering the simple tactics. Then when they begin to grow bored with how easy it is to kill so-and-so or winning has become routine if your playing a certain way with decent players, or other similar examples, they arrive at the next stage of the game. Hardmode, in which not only do the players need to use the simple tactics they learned previously, but now they HAVE to work with their teammates or risk trapping themselves and feeding their foes, now they HAVE to learn what points of their ship are most vital. How to turn their ship for more defense. How to organize which parts of the ship you can afford to be hit. Where on the enemy ship you need to focus fire on. What elevation or angle you should approach a certain foe from. A Dreadnaught is Warping in and wrecking the place? Nail his engines so he can't warp away to safety and let your crew entrap him and eat away at his critical points! This will grant more advanced play, and as so should be set up in a different mode for more advanced players.


"Life is the only thing worth taking, everything else can be bought with credits."


Posted: //
May 3, 2015, 3:58 a.m.



We wouldn't want to implement the system as a separate game mode. We're afraid that it would split the community a bit too much. What we would wind up doing is implement a damage model for the entire game, However sophisticated it might be. What I'm talking about is essentially spots on a ship that do extra or reduced damage when you shoot them (like getting a headshot). Though I really do like the idea about how shooting certain sections can result in a specific temporary outcome. The trick would be communicating that information to the player receiving the damage/debuff.


Nathan "nwood" Wood
Senior Level Designer, YAGER

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