FORUMS


Are you intentionally designing a frustrating game?



Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 12:54 a.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

So drop the free to play BS and charge an up front purchase price and be done with the F2P shenanigans. Cash shop for cosmetics.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:20 a.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 3:31 a.m.

BadAlchemy#4871 posted (#post-114339)

There is nothing wrong with the system, its you as a player.

Not being harsh but good play is rewarded appropriately with enough credits. If you cannot do well in a Veteran match then you as the player need more practice and to learn the game better before going back to Veteran matches.

An indication of good play is a score of 1200-2500 a match. If you don't average that you aren't doing well and are hindering your team.

I play exclusively in veteran and have yet to run out of credits for months, especially since they increased credit earning after all the complaints.

I'm sorry but that's BS. For once, this is actually NOT a "git gud" issue.

Firstly, even if we assume equal levels of skill and practice, you will always have people not getting top 3 and being saddled with maintenance. Which, if you average 1200points will be about 70-80% if your earnings.

Secondly, the ships aren't balanced in terms of point generation. I routinely get 3000+ points in my Koschei, which is quite a lot harder in a Dreadnought for example. So for playing the "wrong" ship you are punished twice: less xp/money generation in the first place and also more maintenance for not making top 3.

Now this would be semi-ok if maintenance wasn't a thing. You'd just make a little less on some ships, healing and carrying the team with kills are rewarded, but everyone makes money at a steady pace.
But if you earn less AND loose more, the difference becomes brutal.

And that is not even touching on the issue of the inherent uphill battle that is T3 vs T4


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:31 a.m.



Fun fact: Free-to-play games NEED free players.

Free players add to the playerbase. Without the free players, you don't keep the playerbase big enough to hold onto the people willing to spend money. And many of the "free" players treat free play as a trial, and will pay once they're comfortable with the pricing model.

Had the devs not thrown the BS maintenance-based progression 2.0 model at us, I had plans to spend a fair amount of money on buying cosmetic items around christmas. I'd probably have been willing to spend some of the money I saved around my birthday (a few days ago) on more things if it wasn't going even further downhill since then.

The majority of "fixes" that have happened since progression 2.0 came out have made the problems worse. The said there was a glitch causing maintenance to be charged at a higher rate than intended, and after "fixing" it, the minimum costs were in line with what the maximum cost had been previously.

Most changes have seen the problems made worse instead of better. Most of the changes in progression 2.0 were - and still are - seen as negatives compared with the pre-2.0 state of the game by the majority of the playerbase.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11833010/r

The numbers are pretty clear on what needs to be done. All we're waiting on is the devs realising they need to stop forcing their mistake down people's throats.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:37 a.m.



HairballHacker#6104 posted (#post-114612)

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

So drop the free to play BS and charge an up front purchase price and be done with the F2P shenanigans. Cash shop for cosmetics.

Huh, it's not the same thing ? The point is to let people play in the minor league efficiently and for free. As you may have seen yourself.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:38 a.m.



So for playing the "wrong" ship you are punished twice: less xp/money generation in the first place and also more maintenance for not making top 3.

Credits are linked to kills, not score. This means that:

  • Playing a healer gives you less credits.
  • Playing a healer increases the chance of avoiding maintenance.
  • Playing a DD gives you more credits.
  • Playing a DD gives you less chance of avoiding maintenance.

I don't agree with this, but it does balance out the reduced credit in-come for healers at the moment.


Dreadnought Support Tool | Customer Support | Dreadnought Discord | Ship Datamine - by Snib


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:41 a.m.



obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-114617)

Fun fact: Free-to-play games NEED free players.

Free players add to the playerbase. Without the free players, you don't keep the playerbase big enough to hold onto the people willing to spend money. And many of the "free" players treat free play as a trial, and will pay once they're comfortable with the pricing model.

Had the devs not thrown the BS maintenance-based progression 2.0 model at us, I had plans to spend a fair amount of money on buying cosmetic items around christmas. I'd probably have been willing to spend some of the money I saved around my birthday (a few days ago) on more things if it wasn't going even further downhill since then.

The majority of "fixes" that have happened since progression 2.0 came out have made the problems worse. The said there was a glitch causing maintenance to be charged at a higher rate than intended, and after "fixing" it, the minimum costs were in line with what the maximum cost had been previously.

Most changes have seen the problems made worse instead of better. Most of the changes in progression 2.0 were - and still are - seen as negatives compared with the pre-2.0 state of the game by the majority of the playerbase.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11833010/r

The numbers are pretty clear on what needs to be done. All we're waiting on is the devs realising they need to stop forcing their mistake down people's throats.

There's and always will be free players in recruit, and sometimes veteran in the end (by harvesting free xp and non-taxed money).

You just want to play elite gratuitously.

The only problem in the game is the lack of tuning options in the recruit tiers.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:44 a.m.



Another funny thing is that a lot of the cosmetics are locked at T5, a tier that 90% of the players will never reach. I would be very interested in kitting out my ship with different modular design parts, or even buying hero ships solely to unlock a new decoration. But I can't.

And even IF i'd make the game a second job and reached T5, the Devs would not want me to play it because it is designed in a way that I would loose money spending time on it.

Who comes up with stuff like that?


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:48 a.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114622)

There's and always will be free players in recruit, and sometimes veteran in the end (by harvesting free xp and non-taxed money).

You just want to play elite gratuitously.

The only problem in the game is the lack of tuning options in the recruit tiers.

You're grossly overestimating the survivability of this game. If player retention is like a bucket of water, progression 2.0 carved the entire base of the bucket away. The game is a pipe through which players flow now, instead of having player retention, the devs are only sustaining it with player THROUGHPUT. Eventually, they'll run out of players who haven't seen enough and moved on.

The game in its previous state was good enough that I'm willing to stick around and keep trying (in spite of STILL not having any information about what was supposedly wrong about the post I'm still waiting on a reply about from the devs).

I'm not letting go because I've seen how good the game COULD be if they didn't keep forcing stupid "monetisation" decisions in spite of the evidence of the entire history of the free-to-play gaming market proving them to be bad ideas.


http://i.imgur.com/f5SVkIz.jpg
---V^^^V---
Step into your daydreams, and follow them home


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 7:56 a.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 7:57 a.m.

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, players who will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 7:58 a.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, players who will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.

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