FORUMS


Are you intentionally designing a frustrating game?



Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 10:39 a.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 9:53 p.m.

Let's also keep in mind that the devs have their marching orders. They are only doing what they have been told to do from the powers that be. It can be easy to blame the devs for the faults of the game, but it's the CEO/publishers who ultimately call the shots, including public relations too.

Yager seems to be a relatively small German company, with only a few titles to their name. They likely have a lot of pressure to bring in some revenue on it. We as players can do our part to make this game viable by purchasing GP (which very few players do, evidently).

Despite their poor communication (maybe there's a language barrier? Or a German cultural thing?), they have shown that they are listening to player feedback and will be reducing maintenance costs in the next patch. So there is reason to be hopeful for the future of the game.

-N03


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 10:46 a.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 10:49 a.m.

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, chance that players who will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 11:07 a.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, chance that players will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 11:49 a.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, chance that players will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 3:36 p.m.



Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, chance that players will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 4:11 p.m.



Skurkanas#7793 posted (#post-114624)

Another funny thing is that a lot of the cosmetics are locked at T5, a tier that 90% of the players will never reach. I would be very interested in kitting out my ship with different modular design parts, or even buying hero ships solely to unlock a new decoration. But I can't.

And even IF i'd make the game a second job and reached T5, the Devs would not want me to play it because it is designed in a way that I would loose money spending time on it.

Who comes up with stuff like that?

This. I'm $90 in, happy to pay, and then they redid the business model to this.

A lot of us are here for the customization, and they want to sell uncustomizable hero ships. I'm okay paying money to skip grind, and there's no way to skip grind, only slightly lessen it. I love the customizable ship geometry, and they seem to have abandoned it.

Above all, I want to play a game and have FUN. The comment in the community topics post about how they want to drive people out of t4 and t5 to lower tiers so that I'll pay more money is crazy. T4 and T5 is where the game they advertised actually is. T1 through T3 are watered down beer. And they're too simple to hold my attention.

Happy to pay more than $90 on a game worth $40, but the game right now is getting worse. If a player is willing to pay to have fun, get out of their way. If someone wants to pay $20 to have a ship line unlocked, take the money. If someone is willing to pay $30 for a hero ship that is customizable, take the money. The current business model just irritates me. I don't want anything for free. I have paid, I want to pay more, and they insist on this horrible business mechanic.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 7:01 p.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 7:03 p.m.

The more I read in this thread, the more sad I get and the closer I get to uninstalling the game before I let myself really like this game. The maintenance "tax" reminds me so much of what Heroes & Generals did (still do I think) and it was such a turn off. Anyway, one thing seems for sure, I guess I will just not buy any T3+ ships and just play T2 forever or until things turn around.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 7:19 p.m.


Updated //
March 23, 2017, 7:22 p.m.

As someone that is about to leave after playing this for two days I would like to give a little imput on this.

Economy is dumb. I mean, I could understand a slow progression since they don't have that much content as of now but damnit, playing from tiers 1 to 3 is anything but fun. The game does a terrible job on teaching you mechanics or introducing basic concepts, the interface is killing me (it took 15 minutes to find a freaking description of what a module actually does, and now I don't even remember how I did it) and matchmaking is terrible even though that is to be expected with the current population.

My point is: I've played this thing for 2 days, haven't improved my gameplay in any way or form, lost 80% of my games and I can't try other ships because maintenance costs won't let me.

I can't believe I'm saying this but the devs should learn one thing or two with Wargaming. I despise the class balance in World Of Warships but from tiers 1 to 4 that game is nearly perfect. They have Naval Academy (a 17 videos playlist on youtube teaching you everything that you need to know about mechanics), the low tier battles are way less chaotic and feature a higher TTK which give players a chance to identify and fix their mistakes and you can easily switch ships since repair fees are very forgiving early on so you can search for something that fits to your play style.

So here is my suggestion. Make the game fun and interesting for the new players, give them the chance to learn and adapt to it and then shovel the not so friendly economy down their throats. Because in all honesty, if the game is good people will deal with it.


Posted: //
March 23, 2017, 8:09 p.m.



I've enjoyed the game, and continue to do so. That said, I'm not one of those people who gets super into gaming. I want it to be something I can pick up every so often and go a few rounds before getting back to what I need to be doing, so Elite Status is not for me. What would be for me is customization, but it's pretty limited at the moment. That and...well, I want to be optimistic about this. I really do. But at the moment, I'm not comfortable spending money on a game that's in flux and has a bunch of wavering players. If it's still good at actual launch I'll sink some more money into it (I do believe in supporting devs) but at the moment I'm going to reserve my judgment and my cash.


Born to ride the storm description


Posted: //
March 24, 2017, 12:44 a.m.



CtrlAltWhee and Weissritter, you guys are on point.

I've personally been really enjoying the game, but the current grind and tier system feel... Wonky.


In the immortal words of Socrates: "I drank... What?"

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