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Regarding "Corvettes are OP"



Posted: //
June 7, 2017, 9:21 p.m.



There is no question that Corvettes being overpowered or not is a huge debate, both in-game and on the forums. I am not going to make an absolute proclamation such as "Corvettes are not OP. Git gud." Rather, I am going to present my argument for why Corvettes are not overpowered.


Data and Evidence

To begin, I am exclusively a Medusa player. I have 45+ hours on the Medium Corvette, that being the Oberon line. For a few weeks now, I have been recording and uploading 95% of my matches to Youtube. You can find my channel and the videos here, and I present these as evidence that skill and experience determines success far more than ship class. For the purpose of this argument, I have gone through the ending scorecard of the 104 Veteran matches I have recorded and compiled the following spreadsheet of how often each ship class ranks first, second, and third on the enemy team. I did not include Team Elimination matches because they are very different from Deathmatch and Onslaught. (Note: I must use the enemy team's scores, because my team's will be skewed by my own performance.) (If the image doesn't show, click here: http://imgur.com/YLJAvSS)


I'll start with some disclaimers and observations. With 104 matches, it is not a huge sample size for such an important question, however 104 matches is still a large enough pool to see trends emerge. It should be noted that Tactical Cruisers are hard to measure because they score points by healing instead of kills most of the time, which is different than the other classes. Also, while counting up the scores, I immediately noted the overrepresentation of Destroyers, as well as a large number of matches that had Destroyers taking all three top spots. More on this later.
Analysis

Corvettes make 1st place 20% of the time, which is what I would expect for a game with 5 classes. While this percentage is higher than that of most of the others, it is nonetheless a whopping half that of Destroyers, which clock in at 41% 1st place showings.

When you expand to consider the top 3 spots as a whole, things smooth out and 4 out of 5 classes are nearly identical. The exception, again, is the Destroyer - as usual, it makes top 3 twice as much as Corvettes.
Conclusion

The data simply does not support the claim that Corvettes are OP. Perhaps slightly better than TC's, AC's, or DN's in capable hands, but I can't make any hard conclusions of that manner from raw scores. In the next section I will explain the reasoning that accounts for the data.

Reasoning

First, as I have been saying in other threads, differentiations need to be made. The situation in Recruit is very different than Veteran. I don't have data on Recruit, but assuming that Corvettes "dominate" more than they do in Veteran I can offer this explanation: Maintenance has incentivized Veteran players to play Recruit to ensure a steady supply of credits that is not taken away by maintenance nor the kick-to-hanger bug. When more experienced players go into matches with presumably fresh into the game players, they are going to dominate. Because newbies don't have the knowledge and experience to deal with the Dover (the only Corvette in Recruit), they end up dying by it a lot. Thus, we have a situation where the Dover is OP due to Veteran player backflow into Recruit. The fix is to change the reward incentives and keep Veterans in Veteran, which I hope Battle Readiness will do.

In Veteran, we've seen the data that says Corvettes do not dominate but are actually quite similar to the other classes. Yet in matches they feel so overpowered. How is it possible to always get roflstomped by a Corvette, yet empirically they're not dominating matches? Consider the Corvette's role. It is made to sneak behind enemy lines, take out a ship, and run. It's the ship that preys on people who wander from the team, and it's the ship that takes out the entrenched and otherwise unstoppable Tactical Cruisers keeping the enemy team alive indefinitely.

Corvettes are not responsible for their victim's lack of skill. You can watch my videos to see it in action, the weak ships that wander alone (Tacs, Arties) are fair game to be shredded because Dreadnought is about team play and sticking together. Additionally, when you are in a group, a little attentiveness goes a long way. If there's a Corvette taking out one of your ships you need to be aware of your surroundings and respond appropriately. Watch my video "Impenetrable Defense" (Episode 41) to see what I mean. A strategy that usually works against unaware players is routinely thwarted by people who stick together and pay attention. In summary, if you lack the skill to deal with Corvette attack patterns (which are fairly predictable once you've played with them for a while) I can't help you.

Corvettes need to be further broken down into their three classifications. The Light and Heavy vettes are similar in construction, both fast ships with firing arcs limited to the front. I see the Heavy as, well, a heavier version of the Light. The real difference is with the Medium, my ship of choice. For a detailed analysis, see my guide to the Medium Corvette but I'll sum it up here. It is slower, bigger, and has around the same health as the Heavy Corvette but can fire 360°. Each Corvette comes with a tradeoff for having high burst damage, and that's their health. A well prepared team will destroy a Corvette that's attacking their group, because they cannot tank damage.

Understand that a nerf would cripple Corvettes.

  • Nerfing damage: They would no longer have the ability to destroy a target before they themselves are destroyed due to their low health. It takes skill to surgically eliminate a ship behind enemy lines quickly and efficiently, then escape without losing all your health, and even then the most skilled Corvette pilots (like myself, frankly) don't have a guarantee of survival.

  • Nerfing speed: Speed is the Corvette's main defense. Since its shields will last but a few seconds against direct fire, they rely on getting in and getting out quickly. I usually only survive because I'm able to duck behind cover. Make the Light/Heavy Corvettes slower, and they become a niche vessel only good for picking off lone targets. Make the Medium Corvette slower, and it becomes useless.

  • Nerfing shields: For a Corvette, shields are last resort. Yes, they block 100% damage but remember that they deplete very fast, even when not being hit. In my guide I advise Corvette players to make use of engine power more often since shield power is incredibly precious. Most commonly, I'll be making an attack and suddenly come under fire which is going to destroy me in seconds if I don't act - thus, I pull up shields. They only last for mere seconds, but it can be enough time to get out. Any bleedthrough just makes them moot because it defeats the shield's purpose on Corvettes.

Again, this is all documented in my videos which I encourage you to watch.

Conclusion

I've made my case for why Corvettes are not overpowered but rather ships with a specific purpose and definite weaknesses, backed up by data that shows they do not dominate matches.

What about Destroyers?

When I started to tally the scores, I was expecting Corvettes to be leading slightly, but I was surprised to find that from the start, Destroyers were far and away the most common top scorers. Why is that? Consider this: Which class can take a beating and dish it out too? Which class can use many varied types of modules? Which class strikes an excellent balance of tanking and maneuverability?

Destroyers.

They are the jack of all trades, rounded in all stats to provide a ship that's neither squishy nor slow nor lacking in firepower, compared to the other classes. Just as the naval term Destroyer was originally short for "Submarine Destroyer," in this game it should be short for "Corvette Destroyer." Yes, the counter to the Corvette is the Destroyer. They have the modules to decloak and slow down Corvettes, the speed to keep up, and the firepower to rip them apart. A well prepared Destroyer piloted by a smart and attentive player eats Corvettes for breakfast. They can take on every type of ship and adapt to many situations. I'm not going to make the "Destroyers are OP" argument, but as it stands they are certainly very powerful. Perhaps people should consider shifting their attention from Corvettes to Destroyers.


If you've got a legitimate counter-argument to make, I encourage you to make it. I only ask that you avoid mischaracterizing my argument (strawman), equating anecdotal evidence to hard data, or making an unreasonable argument, eg. "Corvettes can destroy any ship before it responds and tank the whole team shooting at it and run away while keeping its shields up the entire time." Let's keep to reason, evidence, and logic, please.


Spork's Guide to the Fulgora and Medusa

Medusa and Murometz gameplay


Posted: //
June 7, 2017, 9:56 p.m.



What I learned: Oberon corvettes have a 360 firing arc. God I wish I'd known that. I'm absolutely rubbish in my Stribog.



Posted: //
June 7, 2017, 11:47 p.m.



I completely agree- I've got tons of games on Vettes and you've pretty much highlighted their strengths and weaknesses perfectly. The one thing I would add is that there IS one thing on Vettes that is OP: Drain Torpedoes. Good range, accurate, and almost guarantees a kill. I use them exclusively on all three Vette classes. Nerf their range a bit and I think Vettes might be a bit less frustrating to deal with. It's honestly the only nerf I can think of that wouldn't completely ruin the entire class.


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Posted: //
June 7, 2017, 11:52 p.m.



Little Miss Sunshine#7845 posted (#post-123812)

I completely agree- I've got tons of games on Vettes and you've pretty much highlighted their strengths and weaknesses perfectly. The one thing I would add is that there IS one thing on Vettes that is OP: Drain Torpedoes. Good range, accurate, and almost guarantees a kill. I use them exclusively on all three Vette classes. Nerf their range a bit and I think Vettes might be a bit less frustrating to deal with. It's honestly the only nerf I can think of that wouldn't completely ruin the entire class.

I would be OK with a range nerf, I usually don't drop them until I'm close anyway (under 1.5 km).


Spork's Guide to the Fulgora and Medusa

Medusa and Murometz gameplay


Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 1:15 a.m.



Just don't forget that the biggest problem people have with Corvettes, is that no matter where you aim, your shots often miss due to ping and aim assist firing behind the Corvette.


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Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 1:27 a.m.



To survive corvette assault player must see it well beforehand - have full energy and stupid corvette pilot must wander into flak range. If corvette got drain torpedo - you dead unless saved by someone. Stupid corvette pilots can be killed but smart ones is immortal. Worst thing is then corvettes pair up and just destroy ships in one pass.


Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 5:48 a.m.



Great info!
I have found when running my T4 vettes in better-balanced matches having more 4's than 3's (even a 5 or two--gasp!) that it can be difficult to stay in the top 3 or 4 scorers. The top places usually being taken by highly skilled Arty or Destroyers.


Glaive, spear, sword and knife,
Manfully handle, and in other's hands ruin.
--Liechtenenauer's Verses, Von Danzig, 1452


Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 6:30 a.m.



Would you look at this "pls pls dont nerf mah poor ship" fest. Eheheh.
Amount of effor you put in defending your ship says a lot. About your broken ship AND you as well.
Actualy you might belive in your words, in that case in wouldnt be so bad. Igonrance is leser evil than intended charlantry.

So. Spork.

Beaware that putting excel data doesnt make your post magically logical based.
1 - why on earth you "must" use enemy data only. Yeah yeah you explained. But its poor explanation, besiedes leave it to peer to decide what part of data they want look at. You could separated both teams. Or whatever. For me, i think you did so beforehand but decided to not reveal such data cause it show diffrent situiation
2 - Havent your thought about adding info how many corvettes was in these 104 matches and how many destroyers? What if 75% corvettes if appeared in match row went to top 3? And for destroyers it would be 40% Pretty diffrent situation eh?
3 - your "data" (doesnt deserve such name. It would suggest it was gathered and reported in scientific, unbiased way) also does not include other important factors like K/D. I fly destroyer, I usually fly destroyer, and when i do I end up in top 2. Having top kills etc. Whoa! OP! But what if i tell you that I am top 1 in deaths as well? 11 kills 7 deaths. Top 1.

Conslussion: "data" you posted means nothing
Omg I already written way too much. But couldnt leave such charlantry alone. Blast me. So making it short.

  • You crying to leave you alone AND nerf only ship (destroyers) that can counter you. Cynical. And low.
  • I fly vindicta so vettes doesnt bothers me. So i have no interest in nerfing them. But sometimes i give up my killer role and play as team defender against vettes exclusivley. I wittnessed from 3rd perspective how vettes anihilate my teammates. Many many times.

Ehh i left so many BS statements unanswered.

Reasons vettes OP:
- high ping render them unhittable (game is optimized for slow and fat ships, heck it even has aimbot built in)
- tanking aspects. You friking want fastest ship, with highest dmg being invicible. Pathetic.
- Weapon optimal range much bigger than flaks.
- Fix auto aim or slower vettes

\m/ Hallelujah bros and sis for NERF HAMMER is coming \m/


Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 7:44 a.m.


Updated //
June 8, 2017, 8:31 a.m.

I'm totally agree with that in every aspect. Corvettes aren't OP, they are actually very underpowered in compare to other ships of same tier.
I mean, it takes a lots of skill to put out a significant influence in the battle for a corvette. Besides, there are lots of modules and weapons that can bring oneshot death to any corvette, like mines and artillery guns, which are very easy to handle. Instead of a corvette. Also there is another OP dread module called Stasis Pulse, which is actually a most low skill thing in this game, and totally should be deleted or nerfed hard to make corvettes at least playable.

What im suggesting to make corvettes great again:
- Max HP and Energy increase to survive arty oneshots.
- Speed increase, which is critical for a close range brawler. Current vette speed slightly higher than a destroyer is a ridiculous.
- Overpowered low skill modules nerf, like all mines and pulses. This stuff should be used with tactical thinking, not like "drop and get the kill".

With all that changes corvettes will become at least competetive to other classes, not a useless oneshot whipping boys which they are now.

Im not even surprised that some newcomers and not very skilled players are whining about corvettes now. The reason is that corvettes are so weak that only most skillful and experienced players can play them good. Also, most of the players didnt consider corvettes as a threat, so no one actually bothers shooting and countering them.

I hope developers will listen to adequate and logical feedback, instead of nerfing the most hardest ship to play.


Posted: //
June 8, 2017, 8:03 a.m.


Updated //
June 8, 2017, 8:06 a.m.

I actually took a minute to take a look at your videos, OP.
And then I lol'd like crazy at this sentence.

I present these as evidence that skill and experience determines success far more than ship class.

I have 60 hours at corvette myself, around 30-40 of them are on Stribog. In addition to that - 65 hours on various arties, 55 hours on a dred (50 of which are on Lorica). And may be somewhat 25-30 on various destroyers.

Therefore, I can tell you from the point of experience, that you DON'T do ANYTHING skilled. Like, AT ALL.
You literally use 3 most overpowered mods, that vette have - Disruptor Pulse, Heavy Cloak, Drain Torp (there's 4th - Blast Pulse).
The setup is SO low-skill cap and at the same time SO brutally effective (especially against newbies - which ARE your main target, as far as I saw), that I don't know how in the world you have the guts to come here and call it "skill and experience".

A strategy that usually works against unaware players is routinely thwarted by people who stick together and pay attention.

The classic argument "vettes get shut down in the high level of play" - I'm really not sure who the f..ck inventing them. Sh..t vette players?
Yes, you can kill a vette relatively easy after he's affected with stasis. But he still going to f..ck your entire team by killing the TAC, which you sworn to protect with your dred.

Here's the EXAMPLE of that particular mythological "High Level of Play" - squad vs squad. I was trying to protect the tacs in my Lorica.
Yes, I was killing and assisting in kills of those 2 f..ckers. Yes, they did die a lot.
But STILL NOT ENOUGH.


All in all, the most obvious problem with vettes, is that either:
1) One don't have any ways to deal with them WHATSOEVER (at T2-T3).
2) One can deal with them TO CERTAIN DEGREE, but it requires the effort of intire team to work together, communicate and focus-fire. For 1 ship - which can be some random SOLO zero-skill f..cker, abusing Heavy Cloak, Drain Torps and Disruptor Pulse.


"Hang in there!" (™)

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