FORUMS


A question from a possible new recruit



Posted: //
July 2, 2017, 8:11 a.m.



Hello everyone!

I was reading the forums trying to figure out whether this game is Pay to Win or not and I stumbled upon a huge drama involving 'Officer Briefings', apparently a very important feature in deciding how your vessel performs.

So my question to you players is: Is this game Pay to Win, or not?

What I understand when someone says Pay to Win:

1: Being able to purchase temporary boosts to performance with real money.

2: Being able to purchase equipment, weaponry or anything else that may offer a tactical or statistical advantage over your peers with real money.

3: Being able to boost progress with real money (In my opinion, this is just as pay to win as paying for stats, because it is, essentially, what you are doing and most of the time you will have a DIRECT advantage over anyone who does not pay for the same progress boost. Provided they do not go full automated drone and farm themselves to social self destruction.).

4: Being able to buy stat boosts, or anything else that directly influences your performance while free players can 'also buy them' by simply 'playing alot'. This is a trick I've seen many times before. Sure, you can get everything you want as a free player, provided you play 18 hours a day and continue doing so for months, then you'll be competitive. Until the next update, which is gonna be a week later since it took you half a lifetime to get up to their level.

What I understand as not being pay to win:

1: Buy some skins, look like a god, just don't be one only because your credit card is of higher quality than mine.

2: Other vanity stuff, I don't know, like how about being able to purchase giant jukeboxes and playing theatrical space opera fight music that everyone can hear, lol.

-

Having formulated my question as such, I should add that I usually spend way too much on games in terms of cosmetics, probably spent over 100 euros on LoL skins and I don't even like the game that much.

But I really, really hate people gaining an advantage over you in combat, because they have more money than you do.
It makes people arrogant, think highly of themselves and act as douchebags because they seem to genuinely believe that they are better players.

It destroys games for me.

Thanks in advance for your replies.


Posted: //
July 2, 2017, 8:16 a.m.



the officer briefing system was only a quick attempt they made at making it semi p2w over a year ago,
it got removed again really really fast :p

there's no true p2w features in this game
it's mostly just skins and totaly useless hero ships you can buy
only 'advantage' you can buy = elite status which means you can play more relaxed and lvl faster (+ gain more credits and not have to play lower tier fleets to compensate for the maintenance punishment)


World of dreadnoughts ftw!


Posted: //
July 2, 2017, 8:24 a.m.


Updated //
July 2, 2017, 8:24 a.m.

Ah, excellent. The leveling faster thing doesn't sound too bad, guess I'll check the game out.

thedeath#8178 posted (#post-126828)

the officer briefing system was only a quick attempt they made at making it semi p2w over a year ago,
it got removed again really really fast :p

there's no true p2w features in this game
it's mostly just skins and totaly useless hero ships you can buy
only 'advantage' you can buy = elite status which means you can play more relaxed and lvl faster (+ gain more credits and not have to play lower tier fleets to compensate for the maintenance punishment)


Posted: //
July 2, 2017, 8:25 a.m.



And thank you. smile


Posted: //
July 3, 2017, 7:42 p.m.



No, Dreadnoughts is not "Pay to Win," nor is is 'quite' so "RNGist" as in the same sense as WoT.

You do have a bit of a "Pay to Progress" issue in how long it can take to really grind up the late tiers, but that also makes it not really so much a thing as well as for there to be population enough to USE 5s, enough ppl need to have them,
and very few can really just "buy" their way up as it is, w/o some level of Earning them.
(lolz)

the MM is kinda doesn't exist, vs what we would like, "see here for my post about a 'Training Fleet' idea,"
with games often being rather decidedly "One or the Other" teams winning, such your efforts get you pay but you cannot really hope to "always win" PvP no matter how good you are or do if a legit player.
(lol)

But no. DN's is not a P2W/Fee2Win mess of trash like games made by WarGaming as it stands, nor quite such a mess of RNGism where it comes to matter where your finite supply of shots und ammo go, no matter 'wot' you do.
smile


"Glory to the Truth, amen." (>_< '7


Posted: //
July 4, 2017, 12:09 a.m.



god to know, so I,ll play also :-)

Merci


Posted: //
July 7, 2017, 11:11 a.m.



ZetsubouX#7109 posted (#post-126827)

1: Being able to purchase temporary boosts to performance with real money.

I'm going to assume you're referring to something like "Premium ammo" type bonuses. Items which are consumable, and which expire after a number of matches or a period of time has elapsed. In that regard, Dreadnought has no such items, and is not pay-to-win in this way at all.

2: Being able to purchase equipment, weaponry or anything else that may offer a tactical or statistical advantage over your peers with real money.

There are premium ships. You can buy ships up to and including tier 4 (maximum is 5). These ships are absolutely better than any ship you can start with. The T4 ships in particular can be problematic, because if you have at least a tier 2 ship to put into a veteran fleet, you can guarantee yourself to be in a top-tier ship for veteran matches instantly. If you don't have a T2 ship, you're risking the game throwing you into battles against T5 ships, but getting T2 is a very short process, so you won't have that problem for long. With that said, in comparison with an equal-tier ship, the premium ships aren't actually "better" - in fact, the fixed unmodifiable loadouts make for a good argument that they're WORSE than the regular version of that ship. The primary motivation for most people buying them is that they also unlock cosmetics which can be used on that ship (or ship range? It's been a while since I checked). This isn't really pay-to-win, but the T4 ships being fully-equipped T4 ships with no need to grind up to get good performance and letting you jump right to the top end of the veteran scale can give you an unfair advantage against T2 - 3 ships who are queuing for the same battles. So this is somewhat of a debatable point.

3: Being able to boost progress with real money (In my opinion, this is just as pay to win as paying for stats, because it is, essentially, what you are doing and most of the time you will have a DIRECT advantage over anyone who does not pay for the same progress boost. Provided they do not go full automated drone and farm themselves to social self destruction.).

Elite status is EXACTLY that. While maintenance is still in play (although it's been confirmed the devs finally - 6 months late - admitted it was a terrible idea and are getting rid of it), this is even worse. The maintenance system is broken to an offensive degree, even by the standards set by other games with similar mechanics. Without maintenance, this can be reasonably expected to be less obnoxious, but there is still a plan to keep a "subscription" option which allows for faster progression. Like point 2, this is somewhat open to debate as to how "pay to win" it is, but I'd say it's less p2w than the T4 hero ships.

4: Being able to buy stat boosts, or anything else that directly influences your performance while free players can 'also buy them' by simply 'playing alot'. This is a trick I've seen many times before. Sure, you can get everything you want as a free player, provided you play 18 hours a day and continue doing so for months, then you'll be competitive. Until the next update, which is gonna be a week later since it took you half a lifetime to get up to their level.

They did experiment with this at one point when they tried making officer briefings a real money only purchase. These were (relatively strong) passive buffs they locked behind a paywall. It was announced shortly after the change was made from free to paid currency that this had been an experiment, but the playerbase received the change EXCEPTIONALLY badly, for good reason. They reversed course on it quite promptly, though, and haven't made such a mistake again... at least not yet.

Honestly, while I have plenty of issues with how the devs have handled certain aspects of the game, calling it pay-to-win isn't really one of the problems. The core of having a tier system is bad. The absolutely HORRENDOUS implementation of such a system only exacerbates all the problems while avoiding literally every possible benefit it can offer in the few games that do get away with it. The maintenance system (which, as mentioned, is on the way out) only served to further reinforce exactly WHY all the other mistakes in the tier system were, in fact, mistakes. But there isn't a particularly large window in which you can throw money at things to do better than a free player.


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Posted: //
July 15, 2017, 9:54 p.m.


Updated //
July 15, 2017, 9:56 p.m.

The only scenario its not pay2win is when matches are filled with both sides all max tier max module levels. Until then, tier/module level differences create quite a wide gap. The gap is large enough that skill cannot compensate, imagine facing up against a ship that can do more damage to u per hit, take more damage plus have access to modules you may not even be able to use. Its almost akin to saying, "Yo i'm skilled with a knife" but the problem is you're up against dudes using machins guns, EVEN if he's less skilled, who u gonna place ur bets on?


Posted: //
July 15, 2017, 11:55 p.m.



VERSUS#7174 posted (#post-128238)

The only scenario its not pay2win is when matches are filled with both sides all max tier max module levels. Until then, tier/module level differences create quite a wide gap. The gap is large enough that skill cannot compensate, imagine facing up against a ship that can do more damage to u per hit, take more damage plus have access to modules you may not even be able to use. Its almost akin to saying, "Yo i'm skilled with a knife" but the problem is you're up against dudes using machins guns, EVEN if he's less skilled, who u gonna place ur bets on?

Thing is, as much as the game was MUCH better without the tier system (and the tier system is exceptionally bad even by the low standard set by other tier systems), that's not necessarily pay to win.

You CAN get all the top tier things in the lowest tier without spending money, in fairly short order. You can kit out a fleet with T2 gear, and as long as you keep a token T1 ship to avoid being thrown into matches against T4, you can be the top of your tier. Getting full T4 to do the same in veteran is a lot harder, and the ability to just by an already-loaded T4 ship is somewhat of a "pay-to-win" shortcut in that instance. That said, in order to use that T4 ship and be sure you won't be thrown up against T5 players, you need to have at least one T2 or T3 ship to throw into your veteran fleet with it.


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Step into your daydreams, and follow them home

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