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KaraMon#0559 posted (#post-104315)


I recently bought 2 t3 ships and find a bit different issue.


Yes i know my Gravis can't fight with t4 destroyer , but i could support friendly t4 ships , they tank i provide aditional firepower etc.


Imho real problem is in MM that does not care about tier distribution. You are veteran ? so you are good to go does not matter you have tier 2 or tier 4 .


And we get matches like that where you have mostly tier 2 ships and few tier 3 against mostly tier 3 and few tier 4 .

This is when you feel greatly underpowered in t3 ship .


Make MM that it will distribute players equally so for example both teams get 3 tier 2 , 2 tier 3 ships and 3 tier 4 ships and it will be ok. Now teams imbalance is puting in huge disadventage one team , then you remember that you will have to pay huge maitenance and playing t3 becomes a nightmare



Team balance is really important, however, what is in my opinion even more important is player's fun. Playing tier 2 ship in mixed bracket of tier 2-4 is not fun al all...while tier 4 are king and big boys on the battlefield, tier 2 players feel like useless bag of points for your other team. Even if they will do best what they can, they wont earth many points, they will be mostly farmed by flankers or brawlers..so where is the fun for these players?


No tier 2 should be never ever mixed in veteran bracket. Tier system itself is bad enough, making tier 2 players suffer is just stupid. Last several games..I just can't even force me to play, when my recruit fleet is forced into veteran game. I just can't. Just afking in the corner for whole match.

Pretty much, but at least for now, tier 2 are mostly in the game with tier 1 and tier 2. Yes, tier 1 is useless, however, not for too long. Tier 4 is just king, because, at least for now, Tier 4 are not mixed with tier 5. So, only viable tiers in the game are mostly tier2, tier 4 and tier 5. And that's one of the main issues. Especially, if gap between tier is so large.


I saw too many games die and it was always the same story. Developers wanted to force their way of thinking to players. It will never work..and it wont work in any idustry. They have to adapt, not players. Players will just leave. And I can tell you. In current iteration, most players will quit in tier 3. Tiers itself is bad design in competitive games, however DN pulled it even furhter, where tiers are game deciding factors.


Femboi#3775 posted (#post-102616)



ManiaCCC#0403 posted (#post-101828)


Tier system, as it is designed can't work because of design choices, not because of lack of players.


For example tier 3 is nice example. This is tier, where most players will stay for significant amount of time. Yet, this tier is useless, because only goal of tier 3 is to get into tier 4. How to get there the fastest? Just grind one ship, don't buy module, don't research module outside the path into tier 4, just don't customize. Don't pick ship based on what your team needs, just play the one, which will lead you into tier 4.


And why? because of tier system. Tier 3 is just not competitive tier 3. Yet, this is where most players will stay for the longest time and probably this is where most players will quit the game.


Tier system in DN is flawed to the bones. It has nothing good to offer for players.


There are several fix..the most repeated are remove tiers, introduce variants..or just let plays tiers just with same tiers. However, this will fracture playerbase. So maybe devs will..some day...realize, how they screwed their own game.



Uhm ... Tier 3 isn't 'useless' ... the only reason people are complaining is because, like you said, they keep playing a Tier 3 ... Destroyer? stock, naked ... thats essentially taking its Tier 2 counterpart with a doubled damage boost into a tier 3-4 match, it wont last long, because the ship is using tier 2 modules, stock.


If people would just upgrade the Tier 3 ships, and actually put time into them instead of 'rushing to the shinies' ... they may find them more enjoyable, I certainly do, its good fun charging in as the Oranto, flak 4 round burst, repeaters, flak 4 round burst, rinse and repeat.


Edit: Seriously this 'censor' stuff is just over the top, dn is flagged? cp is flagged? lmao, DN, seriously ... you need to get more in touch with the english language.



I tried to upgrade. It helped, yet I was still underdog in any situation. Going against tier IV is mostly death sentence. This is problem. Players don't want to be disadvantage by design. Not by 15% or 1%. As long as Tier III will be weaker by design, it IS useless tier, period.


ItsGary#1520 posted (#post-102752)


They have said time and time again that it wont be going anywhere.


They may tweak numbers etc.


There is currently a bug which does not add winning bonus's which with a 50% win ratio should offset a large chunk of your maintenance fees.


If you are happy to spend money Elite status gives you an effective 1.5x the reward so you can reduce the deficit almost completely!



This just shows, how developers are not very familiar, how perception is very important in game design.


Don't punish bad gameplay, reward good gameplay. How?


MWO had this problem too. They just removed maintenance fees, reduced rewards in match and introduced salvage bonus, which gives additional credits, if your mech wasn't damaged too badly. It is serving same purpose, yet, players see it as potential reward, not punishment.

Tier system, as it is designed can't work because of design choices, not because of lack of players.


For example tier 3 is nice example. This is tier, where most players will stay for significant amount of time. Yet, this tier is useless, because only goal of tier 3 is to get into tier 4. How to get there the fastest? Just grind one ship, don't buy module, don't research module outside the path into tier 4, just don't customize. Don't pick ship based on what your team needs, just play the one, which will lead you into tier 4.


And why? because of tier system. Tier 3 is just not competitive tier 3. Yet, this is where most players will stay for the longest time and probably this is where most players will quit the game.


Tier system in DN is flawed to the bones. It has nothing good to offer for players.


There are several fix..the most repeated are remove tiers, introduce variants..or just let plays tiers just with same tiers. However, this will fracture playerbase. So maybe devs will..some day...realize, how they screwed their own game.

Today I played 5 matches...4 of them were completely stupid. One or other team has like 4-6 tier 4 ships, while other has none and few 2 tier ships. I was at least trying one game. But power gap is so insane, it was pointless. Other games, where I saw these compositions, I just AFKed in the corner , last game, I just alt+f4 from the game. Honestly, this tier system is really thing, which is killing the game.

The most baffling thing is, if they would just remove maintenance altogether, they would be cheered by absolutely everyone. It wouldn't even hurt the game. And it is easy to balance, if they feel, people are getting money too fast, just rebalance reward system. If they want reward better players, who are dying less, introduce something like salvage system in MWO, where players are rewarded more, if they mech were damaged less.


Whole maintenance issue FIXED! period. I have no idea what these guys behind this game are thinking.

I can honestly said, Tier system is the most unfun, stupid, frustrating feature I ever played. I am in tier 3 and there were not a single moment, where I thought Tier system is good for game. However, almost every game, I can point, how tier system is ruining game for me or other players...period.


Tier system is not even achieving set goal - to feel more powerful. Jumping from tier 2 to tier 3 feels abysmal. I feel like I can't do anything, yet I have to grind and grind and grind to be at least semi-competitive.


I am just baffled, how developers, claiming they are listening, just can't come here, and talk with us about current system and why they implemented it and how they feel about it now, after tons of feedback they are getting. For god sake, fix your god progression system. Before progression 2.0 i loved the game, so my friends. Now, noone I know says something positive about current system.


Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-99168)



layinout#5947 posted (#post-99166)


I admit to being very much a noob. Never having gamed before, I don't have the muscle memory borrowed from other games that lets me move my ships around easily, and my older body will make creating that muscle memory more difficult.


That leaves me particularly sensitive to the consequences of being pulled into a veteran match when I tried to enter a recruit match. I know that I'm little more than cannon fodder, and my scores usually prove it, but what chance do I have against tier 3 and 4 ships (much less the skills of the Captains who've ground to that point).


What I suggest is a temporary upshift in abilities for such people. I'm not talking about letting them be equal to tier 3 ships that people have worked hard to get, but to temporarily (for that match only) raise their health, damage resistance and weapon effectiveness, to let them gain experience and die a little less often. Maybe half way to tier 3 for tier 2 ships and tier 2 upshift for tier 1 ships?


I think people are interested in the match play itself and challenging themselves to improve. Little chance of that when you die almost as soon as you spawn. Great discouragement and fewer players (and opportunities to make money) that way.


Please think about it.



Let them concentrate on things that actually need done. It takes a hour to get a Tier 3 ship on a new account. I was already on my tier 4 the very 1st day after wipe.



Me and my friend are playing for days and days and we just got into tier 3. However, two of my friends just stopped playing for sole reason, they were put with their tier 1 and tier 2 ships into tier 3-4 matches. It was frustrating experience, so they stopped playing and wont come back anytime soon.


So, i think this is fairly hot issue with their game.


Little Miss Sunshine#7845 posted (#post-98614)


But I also know that they are incredibly successful games because a lot of people DO like them and because the tiering system, though annoying to a lot of people, is a successful means of making a profit in this style of game. The progression is but one aspect of the game; the much bigger part is actual gameplay, and to my experience Dreadnought has much more enjoyable gameplay than WoT. Also note that I played both Tanks and War Thunder for a LONG time (I still do play War Thunder on occasion- it is a good game) and that I am a skilled player in all three of these games. I'm not just some noob trying to shout the loudest.



People were whining about tiered progression in these games for ages my friend. And while some voices said "it is fine"

, you could hardly find anyone (at least when I played) who liked these systems. Yes, these games are successful but not for tiered progression. Sense of progression is good but this is wrong type of progression.


Even wargaming said same thing in one of their AMA sessions. If they could design progression system differently now, they would. However, progression system they currently have is so deeply integrated to everything inside the game (monetization included), changing it may cause serious trouble to otherwise successful games.


To be said, Mechwarrior online did many things wrong...like really really wrong, however, they variation systems and progression is really well made and if player something love about MWO, it is very open progression system and depth, what variants can offer.


It is funny, because it seems that dreadnought devs created the perfect system for variants as progression system, yet, they butchered their own system for sake of "feeling power of progression"? Like anyone really want that in competitive games except players who plays for hours and hours per day? Their thinking is backwards, so instead providing very open, smooth, interesting progression, they developed this insanely bland, boring, unbalanced, grindy progression system, which almost noone likes.