Also mit Hangar und Orientierung stimme ich dir einhundertprozentig zu.

Das Thema Klänge stößt bei mir auch stark auf Dissonanz.

Die Effekte sind nunmal Geschmackssache... Ich mag zum Beispiel die Hauptwaffe der Lorica ziemlich. Die hat sich in meinen Augen (Ohren ) verbessert.

Zur Artillerie habe ich schon bei der Ankündigung gesagt, dass mir da der Charakter flöten geht. Einer, mit dem ich gesprochen habe, meinte, er könne Artillerie nichtmehr ernst nehmen, weil sie wie eine wütende Katze klingt
("Fauch! Fauch!").

Generell ist vieles einfach nur auf "Bummbumm" getrimmt.

Grundsätzlich finde ich, dass die Entwickler zwar versucht haben, das Spiel "erwachsener" zu machen, es aber akustisch zu einem typischen Fall von "Weltraumöde mit Hauch von Depression" + "Krabumm" verwandelt haben.
Man hat durch die fehlende Orientierung quasi das Gefühl, von seinem Schiff getrennt zu sein und irgendwie im Raum zu dümpeln.
Die alte Musik - so nervig ich die nach etlichem Hören auch fand, hatte aber was von "Action". Die neue "dynamische" Musik könnte so auch bei der X-Serie zur Hinetrgrundberiselung dienen, wenn nicht - wie sagte es wwerk im Discord so schön - "halb Afrika mittrommeln würde".

Alles in allem.... meh... Mag sein, dass ich einfach nur ein Gewohnheitsrentner bin, aber den Enthusiasmus, den die Entwickler bezüglich ihrer Arbeit haben, kann ich irgendwie nicht nachvollziehen.
"Es muss laut sein! Krawumm!"

Ein wenig am Thema vorbei... aber es gehört ja irgendwie zusammen.

Well, the intended purpose is to get out of dangerous situations as a healer, for example. The "classic" position in the fleet.

The Assasin Build on a Harwich however is set to sneak up to the enemy, do a ton of damage and get out undetected by resetting cloak with Module Recycler.
For sufficient energy supply this needs Navigation expert and for maximum damage output Module Recycler.

Once you spot a suspicious Harwich sneaking around, there is a few ways to counter:

Most efficiently (in my experience)


-Module disruptor
activated with good timing it cripples the cloak and the purpose of the enemies' approach - dealing burst damage with his blasts.
Without the cloak it is an obvious target (as long as the team is (made) aware), also the Nav Expert requires more energy to its' shields which makes them drain fast.

-Drain Module
a drained Harwich will not be able to drop its' mine while staying in proximity to blast you (~1.5k for the nuke mine, ~1k for the blast) without suiciding.
Without cover by shields and no power to run off, you can use flak to kick its' teeth in.


-Armor Booster Pulse
Energy for shields or not - with Armor Booster you take like no damage from the explosions, the harwich can not use its' instant reset and the attack is in vain + the ship is exposed.

Also useful:

Own Harwich with blast and nuke + Energy Generator or Emergency Evac.
With EG you can outlast the enemy's energy, eat their mines and blasts with shields and then nuke, or toast them with your amped beams.


As with anything fast or sneaky: awareness and being ready to strike.
If players on the enemy team are just out to sneak up on you, your team can afford one player, or two, that just keep an eye out for assasins and counters their attacks.

Ofcourse, players who know me will now say "you just defend it, because you use it -it's totally op!", just like with rams, or anything that any player is successful with.
Same rubbish all the time.

The weird balance between modules aside, that brings me to an issue with the community:
Efficient Loadout + skilled players -> "Needs nerf!"

That is the easy way to solve things and will never adress the majority of players' perceptions, neither will it increase the diversity of tactics and fun.

I think, if players encounter that Loadout more often, they will get aware of it and will make life hard on it.
Also people should consider that it is an efficient way to counter a loose heal ball and most importantly Artillery cruisers firing from a covered position.
Once you have seen the Artillery in Legendary punching holes into you, you will love having a Harwich on your team.

Find a way to deal with the problem, don't try to just make it go away.


To the author of the topic: this is not a critique on your comparison, btw. I also think that some modules are just weirdly balanced. (just look a t heavy torpedo salvo vs. light torpedo salvo for the dreads and it's obvious that somebody hasn't really paid attention to what he was up to.)


See you in space!

If I'd get 10k free xp ingame for every "this game is dead"-thread in here, I'd have all my T5 maxed out...

@ Astraea#9085

So... what you are saying is - you don't like a specific module that has a legitimate spot in the game - therefore you will intentionally use it to an unreasonable extend, just to pee players off, especially new ones - to get it nerfed/taken out entirely.

That is not just selfish and counter constructive. It is quite literally sabotaging the game that we enjoy.

I don't understand how any experienced player can go back to Recruit, unless it's Proving Grounds.

Hero ships or not - at a certain level you should be generally banned from Recruit. Even if you help a friend who's new to the game - the opposing side faces a way too skilled player when just figuring out the game and whether it's fun or not.

Hero ships are bought for their custom features to be used on regular ships anyway and not for the ship itself.
For XP-farming you'd use a T4.

And even if that weren't true, the experience of new players and the space to figure things out, without getting clubbed, is more important.

Well, additional to what has been said:

Basically survival is key.

It doesn't matter if you have 10 kills, or none at all. Just try not to be an easy target.
That's difficult with a T3 destroyer since they are a welcome target for just any T4 out there, but following WaveRider's advice should really help.

Energy management is a vital part of just everything. Anticipate what is going to happen and save some energy and modules to counter.

You should definitely learn how to pilot your ship. How to dodge enemy fire, get in and out of cover, sneak up on enemies without being detected, or to draw attention away.
Watch from where you attack - as a T3 you shouldn't flank to much alone since you'd be an easy kill. But if you run into let's say an Artillery from behind, look that you can run through to your team or into good cover and not into an enemy Harwich, or Dread, or whatever will be your certain death.

As you proceed you can use structures and other ships and intentionally collide with them to turn faster. Or "stick" at the lower side of a structre, asteroid, or whatever (Kinda like the Millenium Falcon on that star destroyer... you know. ). The sometimes weird physics of the game allow for some interesting use.

To dodge fire (specially Artillery) try to be unpredictable and figure out how the enemy targets you.
He has to target the spot where you will be and not where you are - so don't be where he expects you to be.
You can achieve that by shifting altitude but also by tricking him with boosts of Power to Engines or breaking your thrust for a second (works against Jupiter Arms Artillery often (low firerate)).
I feel like backthrust turns often help against enemy Tac's beams - but I can't tell for sure.
Always keep distance and firerate in Mind. (Which reminds me: know your firing distance and module range!)
The thing is - moving your ship should become intuitive so that you don't really notice that you are doing something. It just has to work.

I hope this helps and is not written in a too confusing way.

See you in space.

No matter what a Tier VI could look like or be played like - the game should not be about infinite grinding.

At some point it has to be about how you play. So Tier V being the highest level ships is sufficient and good as it is.

The only way to separate players further than at the moment (when the playerbase is large enough) should be by rank.

The respawn based suicide gameplay would not be found in Team Elimination, which probably returns with said larger playerbase. (I hope that the steam launch will give this a boost.)

So... that's it, basically from my side.

Not in favour for a T VI at all.

I honestly don't even see why they allowed 4-player-squads when they themselves say that the base isn't large enough.

Anyway, I know it is going to be fixed, but still it feels ridiculous. When certain players are online I can be almost a hundred percent sure that the next TDM I join will be a stomp.

That makes the game mode, which is actually my favourite of the existing modes (nothing beats TE ), completely unpleasant and forces me to qeue onslaught just for having a balanced game.
That's not the way it should work.

As Tyrel said: many players will have stopped the game.
Not because they can't take a loss or even losing 5 times in a row, but because there was no chance from the beginning, over and over again.

I wish said squads would react themselves to their impact on the gameplay, but really to expect that amount of thoughtfulness from everybody is basically utopia.

Btw, some of the groups really started just to meet in Legendary, or qeue in small teams.

But there is a certain one that "ruins" games for months, you bascially never see them alone. Long time I just shrugged and took it as a lost match. But I think it reached the point of where it stopped being just silly, but became a disturbance to me, too.

I wonder if DN staff ever took the time to maybe just talk to these guys, since long before I even considered seeing this the way I do now, it was already an issue to many others.
Or if they don't interfere directly in general. Just curious about that.

Even though I usually hate quitters, I'm considering just leaving those matches in the future. I have no problem with being stomped, as I said - but I have a problem with a game being predetermined where I can actually do just nothing to stop it, just about every time a certain squad gets put in.
Feels bad for the team though. Often I am the only lvl. 50 in the group and I would hate to let them down. <- not meant to be bragging, don't really care about the level, just stating a fact to be used as a reference of playtime and probably experience.

So... I don't know.

Glad this stirred up so much interest, btw.
Even though it's well discussed in other places already, I guess.

I lately squad up with another player for various reasons but mostly the plain fun of not being out there "alone". Unfortunately that is often enough to stomp. So I completely understand if people just want to play with their friends and by the way kick butts.

Two-man-squads usually though can be countered better than 4 players balancing their ships to support each other.

Also a four man squad can be split to face each other - still got your friends, just not on the same team.

"you" - not meaning specifically you.

This was actually rather an impulsive post over seeing that happening so often and experiencing the same thing this evening more than just once.
I could just switch to onslaught and forget about it, but TDM is so much fun, when it gets the chance to unfold.

Also I know that some ppl would consider me a complete dipsh't for ramming the fudge out of everyone.

As I said... just saying. Consider it. At the end - all part of the game.