I mean, obviously as you go up in the tiers corvettes become less of an issue, but the point is that for the first two tiers at least (I'd contest the idea that t3 ships are able to counter corvettes as well as people seem to think, but let's not get into it) corvettes are entirely dominant. Bear in mind, the recruit tier is where everyone new will start at, and if their first multiplayer experiences are 'mobbed by covettes, game is unbalanced' then most players won't play past the first 6 hours.

Even in veteran tiers, 4 corvette comps are still a huge problem largely due to the problem that all of the counters to corvettes are module based and therefore are limited in frequency of use. You can use your modules to kill one, but then another will come along in the time since then. Which is why I think the maximum number of ships per game should be limited (drawing on other f2p games, TF2 have such a system and it doesn't present too many problems), so they fill more of the harassment role they were intended for, or more secondary weapon variation should be available so that low-mid tier ships can gain access to close quarters weapons faster. To draw on pre-progression experiences, for instance, my dreadnought always rolled with heavy flak cannons, so I could quickly kill any corvettes that came too close. This meant that corvettes were limited in what ships they could hit, or if they were hitting heavier class ships only doing so while said ship was preoccupied. It meant that while corvettes were incredibly powerful, without support from other ship types they couldn't be effective. Assuming they didn't have assault warp blink (dodging that as a Monarch dreadnought was always a bit tricky XD)

I agree with people saying that reducing the class' stats wouldn't help, the corvette's health is low as it is and if you reduce their damage then that defeats the point of the class in the first place.

So it turns out (surprise surprise) that corvettes are a bit unbalanced, especially when there are large numbers of them when working together. A team comp that is mostly corvettes or (as I've seen before) a sniper-healer turtle comp, while effective, isn't actually very fun to play against (or to heal). I think that the solution to the corvette problem and the problem with sniper dominant comps is to put a cap on how many of each can be put on a team at once. Therefore, corvettes can be as effective as they are now, but would be limited to 1 or 2 players per team, and so would have a more surgical strike/harassment role that they're intended to meet, rather than a '4 corvettes flying around bursting down everything in sight' role that they seem to play now.

Another solution is to add more secondary weapons to lower tiers: for instance, in the old progression system once Dreadnought Heavy Flak Cannons were unlocked, a dreadnought would be much better able to protect against corvettes diving their healers. It'd also help with complaints about lack of ship build variety in tier 1-3 (wink wink nudge nudge)

What about the problem with me crashing half the time I try to connect to a game and then get charged maintenance after wasting 8 minutes or so restarting my PC? Fair dos on fixing all the other bugs, but tbh spending half my game time dealing with crashes and maintenance charges for unplayed games is the main dealbreaker for me atm...

Honestly, I'd have thought open beta would be less buggy than closed, but darn it (fix the darned language filters on these forums btw, god's sake darn sounds like a cliche 70s movie villain), I've played 5 hours today (or tried to) and have had more game crashed when trying to join a game than I have actually joined the game.

Guys, I didn't comment this to say 'The devs are rubbish the game is dead blearg', that's not productive. We're here to test the game and give advice about tweaks. I don't necessarily think the system isn't viable, I just think it needs a bit of tweaking. Hating on the devs for making a design error while the games in development and then judging the game to be dead isn't helpful. The point of my post wasn't to hate on the devs or the game but to point out things I think need tweaking before I'll start playing properly again.

If you don't have anything productive to say, please direct your anger on one of the myriad other forum posts that're rage-fests. smile

DN_MiguelItUp#0468 posted (#post-97787)

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-97772)

DN_MiguelItUp#0468 posted (#post-97682)

Dreadnought is nowhere near "final" and "complete"

Dreadnought is nowhere near ready for open beta. Before progression 2.0, it was pretty close to it, though.

Any word on the long-overdue "sorry, we screwed up" announcement and reverting like the majority of the community has been asking for since before you even did it in the first place?

There are a lot of reasons why the game changed, but that's not for me to explain nor get into. Plus it's been explained before via articles, streams, and dev round tables. There will be no, "sorry we screwed up" announcement, because no one "screwed up" anything. Dreadnought evolved into what the devs / designers wanted it to be. Is it going to be something for everyone? No, it won't. But, that being said there were people that wanted a lot more out of Dreadnought pre-2.0. It's really hard to make everyone happy, and I wish we could across the board. What we're going to continue to do is support Dreadnought every step of the way, and it'll continue improve as we move forward.

Miguel, I know the game developers need to make money, but punishing new & inexperienced players seems to be a bad way to get regular gamers. And I get you can't make everyone happy, but surely restricting your player base to just people who enjoy that scale of grind seems to be kind of... hamstringing? for your game. I have reported these issues, but I haven't gotten a response yet. I'm more chill about the way of the game than a lot of people who seem to be hating on it, and for all my complaints the game itself is still really fun, it's just a problem that I can't enjoy it properly smile

So I wasn't going to really say anything, because there's a lot of anger on the forums, more than the game developers really deserve. I'm not actually mad, I'm just disappointed and tired. I'm stopping really dedicating any significant time into playing dreadnought, and I thought I might as well say why.

1) lack of accessibility: the game as it is is incredibly punishing for new players. I was able to climb up the tiers quite fast because I played the game before the shipyard changes, and know the game, and I bought a founders pack (fool that I was), so I have elite status, but if I didn't the grind would be annoying, especially going into tier 2. (as a sidenote, what's the point in hero ships now? What benefit do I gain from playing them in the current progression system? Any experience I get from them is useless, unless i use the GP i also got from my founders pack to convert them. So I benefit how...?)

2) Lack of game balance: The game is incredibly unbalanced at low-mid tiers, with corvettes being able to kill dreadnoughts within 10 seconds (how does that even work). I know part of it is inexperienced players, matchmaking being bad due to low player base etc, but surely earlier tiers of ships should be MORE forgiving, not less? making low tier ships weak makes sense from an improvement point of view, but making the ship easier to play the better you are at the game (which I can only assume your ship tier is meant to mean, because atm it's just a sign of how much free time you have). Also, the argument that we should forgive shoddy matchmaking because it's in beta is no excuse. The whole point of a beta is to test the game before release. All the game. Not just some of it or most of it. Saying we can't assess the matchmaking because of the low population defeats the purpose of testing it at all.

3) This was the gamebreaker for me: To be honest, my love of the game and the concept behind it would have kept me going if it wasn't for this: The game is buggy as (the opposite of heaven which is apparently censored). And I don't mean oh there are a few glitches, I was fine with that before the new system. I mean it takes me three minutes to sign in, if the server doesn't crash on me. I mean every game I play my audio is broken, completely ruining my immersion, assuming it doesn't crash at all. I mean the game is so laggy that I can't play any ship that requires any degree of coordination. I mean my game will randomly crash. My laptop is high enough spec to run the game, and even on low graphics settings it just doesn't work. And I've reported these issues five times (3 times for sound issues, twice for lags and crashes), and I've had no response from Grey Box, so I'm not sure what else to do.

I don't really expect the dev's to look at this, and I likely won't reply to any comments on this. I just thought I should say why I don't think the game is viable at the moment, and why I don't plan on playing a significant amount of it in the current state. Seeing as we're meant to give feedback on the game and all.

So I Haven't played dreadnought significantly since last summer, because I haven't had the time (final year at uni, it turns out, requires a lot of time commitment). I haven't really followed what's happened much to the game either since then, so I'm probably not qualified to chip in here. But I signed up for a game that offered me a large variety of ships that I could unlock at my leisure, rather than forcing me to unlock things I didn't actually want to, like most other games. I also signed up for a game where you had the freedom to play any of the ships you'd previously played and still be able to have them relevant and able to compete with higher tiers. The game as I see it now doesn't allow any of that, and rather than allowing new players to be competitive and feel rewarded, the developers have put in a huge grind wall and a tier system that if anything, will discourage new players from working for better ships.

I personally don't think this petition goes far enough, I'd like to see the tier system removed entirely and replaced with matchmaking brackets based on level and experience, similar to the league systems of Starcraft, allowing you to unlock ships as get experience. That way, you could have people who are new and inexperienced but they can still work to unlock new ships to play in their league, and bring those ships with them to the new league. But, it seems that since the devs have in fact doubled down on their progression choices in response to the backlash, rather than reverse it, and this seems to be the best alternative given that. So I'm in. smile

It could be a delay in loading your data into the system? Did you set up your account and enter your emailed code and everything?

Update for that build I laid out in the origional post:

Well the build is fun, so it wins on that one. BUT. I wouldn't describe it as a Uber-Mensch build for a few reasons.

1) It is reliant on your team to be able to respond to the damage you can do and distract the enemy team while you leg it. With this build, if you pick a target, and run in, you are pretty much guaranteed to kill it. Its just whether your team can react to you killing key people. Also, the ability of this ship to kill things is not dependent on the enemy ship class (apart from monarch): It can nuke down everything ranging to and including a Zmey.

2) The level of ability to react and coordinate and capitalise on that point is one which you are extremely unlikely to run into, matchmaking being what it is. One example of this issue is once when i went in on a team which had one destroyer, one invictus, two Aion tac cruisers and a sniper ship. I killed both tac cruisers and mostly killed the dreadnought before finally the sniper managed to get me just before I got away. If the team had been able to react, they'd have mopped up the rest of the enemy easily. Instead, they were turtling on the other side of the map. This shows that while it's good as a build, it needs teamwork to have play-making utility, and you dont get that most games in this beta.

3) the torpedo pathing is terrible. If there's any object above or below your target, your torpedos are almost guaranteed to hit it. you need to be out in the open to guarantee all torpedos hitting.

So the build is fun. It's effective in the right setting. But it needs a bigger player base to improve matchmaking, and it needs improved torpedo pathing. 'Cos I saw that time my torpedos swerved downwards from a straight line towards the target to hit the mountain, and i am a tad tilted.

ElDrinja: isnt a pure monarch build really hard to coordinate with in quick match? I always found with it that everyone would leave me behind and by the time id arrive the fight would be over. Also teamwork is limited in the game because of the matchmaking as i said.

I agree with Zardoz that destroyers and dreadnoughts shouldnt be comparable, but Gora and Invictus are usually compared with each other because they're both tier 1 and they both have relatively similar stat lines. Or at least they look that way without looking at stat sheets.