And it's even more flummoxing that in a team of 3 none has the idea of switching (purpose of the 5 ships-selection and basically, the point of the game) to healer, thus voiding any arty supremacy.

And by the way arties are not my prefered class (given it's wielded as a proof).

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-205422) said:

The more I read the more this sounds like a "I keep losing and I'm blaming Artillery ships, because I'm amazing at this game and people can't play better than me."

Yes I normally take nukes. Killing an art in one feels great. Also You can self detonate nukes so they won't miss. Use cover. They can't shoot what they can't see.

That + "i don't want to use the primary module that my class has against them on purpose that one-hit kills arties" + "i want the class mine is specificaly weak against be removed" + apparently "i'm missing the point of my internal modules that are both geared toward countering my weakness to arties" (warp and resistance).

lethal61#8149 posted (#post-114950)

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114569)

Still acting like

1- you know anything about the real numbers of player retention and

2- player retention going down wasn't completely normal on this kind of game.

You can spend real money on this FREE GAME to gain ingame resources or elite time that gives you ingame resources.

And the game has to monetize somehow.

Deal with it.

Obviously there is a problem seeing how long this game has been out and no one is jumping on your band wagon the player numbers cannot be dismissed by your silly exclamation or that of the others that have posted here. There Is a problem and the devs better deal with it or it will take care of its self and this game will fail just like others do that refuse to change and have the we know best mentality.

You do realize that actual professionals do those kinds of maths and calculated that it was the better way like that, and all you have are assumptions and feelings and a negligible number of rants on the forum that makes the ranters feel they're numerous ?

Yes, a handful of dozens IS negligible, compared to the real numbers.

There IS a reason you're not listened to, and it is NOT stubborness.

The real math are something akin to "if this game fails in a year with the current model, we're still getting more money of it than the ranters' model in 4 years, and with far less maintaining servers and staff costs, and we can begin quicker a new project with full staff".

People are planning to live of this game and/or the next project.

No sense of superiority neither forum strawman attacks will ever change that.

Some people here really need to start understanding they don't know something better just because they're annoyed by a part of the something ; what's even more clunky is that i'm pretty sure some of the ranters are working in entrepeneurial business and actually know how this work but just didn't clicked that it's exactly like their day job.

Funnything: I've listened for months now to the same people (cough obliviondoll cough) again and again whining about how the game doesn't make people keep on playing it. Food for thoughts.

Weissritter#6437 posted (#post-114672)

As someone that is about to leave after playing this for two days I would like to give a little imput on this.

Economy is dumb. I mean, I could understand a slow progression since they don't have that much content as of now but damnit, playing from tiers 1 to 3 is anything but fun. The game does a terrible job on teaching you mechanics or introducing basic concepts, the interface is killing me (it took 15 minutes to find a freaking description of what a module actually does, and now I don't even remember how I did it) and matchmaking is terrible even though that is to be expected with the current population.

My point is: I've played this thing for 2 days, haven't improved my gameplay in any way or form, lost 80% of my games and I can't try other ships because maintenance costs won't let me.

I can't believe I'm saying this but the devs should learn one thing or two with Wargaming. I despise the class balance in World Of Warships but from tiers 1 to 4 that game is nearly perfect. They have Naval Academy (a 17 videos playlist on youtube teaching you everything that you need to know about mechanics), the low tier battles are way less chaotic and feature a higher TTK which give players a chance to identify and fix their mistakes and you can easily switch ships since repair fees are very forgiving early on so you can search for something that fits to your play style.

So here is my suggestion. Make the game fun and interesting for the new players, give them the chance to learn and adapt to it and then shovel the not so friendly economy down their throats. Because in all honesty, if the game is good people will deal with it.

I bought every t3 ships without a single veteran game, so without a cent of maintenance, and without ever feeling dumbily farming.

This is the game not letting you try other ships ?

ManiaCCC#0403 posted (#post-114659)

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

You don't understand at all. Free to play games are living on money grabbed from players, but these games have something in common...they are not frustrating to play. I already paid for DN and if you would ask me last year, if I would give more money to them, i would say "just release it, no more wipes and I will".. Now I can tell you, I won't. Because I have no fun playing it.

My last experience with DN was like this:

I logged in, started to look for Veteran. (I have few tier 4 ships). Game started after almost 5 minutes, game crashed, I logged in once again after several minutes,

I paid maintenance, started new game, game loaded after several minutes, game was riddled with tier 2 in our team. It was horrible and we lost, everyone in our team was pretty much crying about MM. I paid maintenance and lost some credits.

I started new game. After several minutes, new game started and It was actually good one. We lost, however it was very close, very good game, I ended third in our team. After match I paid maintenance and I got something like 100 credits. It was really really stupid.

So I started new game, now it was with Recruit fleet. After few minutes, game started, our and opposing team was full of tier 3 - tier 4 ships. We lost and I was like at the bottom of the table, because I couldn't do a s**t against tier 3-4 dreadnought and healer blobs. It was boring AF. At least I earned almost 1300 credits smile (with Veteran bonus).

I started another Recruit game, game loeaded, once again, teams riddled with high tier ships, opposing team has something like 5 tier 4 ships, we have 2. I alt+f4 from the game and never started it again.

As you can see, this is experience, many new players will be going through. And can tell you for sure, chance that players will be willing to pay some money for this game is close to zero.

I play the same game as you, i understand everything the same way you do.

Yes, it's a frustrating game if you don't put any money in - because the design can summarised as "we need to money to maintain the game, if you like it and want to play past the (really) free tier, pay for it"

Keep playing in recruit and you get a lot of credits without maintenance and lots of free xp too. If you put a tier 1 ship in your fleet you'll never be put out of recruit league.

And I get wrecked as much as anyone in veteran tiers because of wonky starting t3 builds against übertuned t4 grinders. This is not a git gud argumentation.

Actually i'm even not loosing money when getting seal clubbed in veteran league while i'm not a leet minimaxer, but more of a "let's try every ship possible" explorer.

Yet i'm okay with spending some money on it, because i do understand i can't get playtime, or a game, for completely free. You don't think this game is worth a game's price ? Well spend what you think it's worth on it then. It will get you 100k credits or something like that anyway.

Honestly the only two problems with the game is the gating of a lot of builds behind tiers (in my mind every secondaries and modules should be unlocked by tier 3, with accodring power levels) and the flagrant gap between new t3 and custom t4 in veteran (as in "you can mathematically not win" in nearly all situation).

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-114625)

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114622)

There's and always will be free players in recruit, and sometimes veteran in the end (by harvesting free xp and non-taxed money).

You just want to play elite gratuitously.

The only problem in the game is the lack of tuning options in the recruit tiers.

You're grossly overestimating the survivability of this game. If player retention is like a bucket of water, progression 2.0 carved the entire base of the bucket away. The game is a pipe through which players flow now, instead of having player retention, the devs are only sustaining it with player THROUGHPUT. Eventually, they'll run out of players who haven't seen enough and moved on.

The game in its previous state was good enough that I'm willing to stick around and keep trying (in spite of STILL not having any information about what was supposedly wrong about the post I'm still waiting on a reply about from the devs).

I'm not letting go because I've seen how good the game COULD be if they didn't keep forcing stupid "monetisation" decisions in spite of the evidence of the entire history of the free-to-play gaming market proving them to be bad ideas.

Yeah yeah yeah as always, you're acting like you now everything better than anyone, including the dev team, the market, the numbers about retention and such that you don't know and physically have no access to, the design goals, and game design as a whole as if it wasn't even a job in itself and was something anyone with a keyboard could make master classes of.

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-114617)

Fun fact: Free-to-play games NEED free players.

Free players add to the playerbase. Without the free players, you don't keep the playerbase big enough to hold onto the people willing to spend money. And many of the "free" players treat free play as a trial, and will pay once they're comfortable with the pricing model.

Had the devs not thrown the BS maintenance-based progression 2.0 model at us, I had plans to spend a fair amount of money on buying cosmetic items around christmas. I'd probably have been willing to spend some of the money I saved around my birthday (a few days ago) on more things if it wasn't going even further downhill since then.

The majority of "fixes" that have happened since progression 2.0 came out have made the problems worse. The said there was a glitch causing maintenance to be charged at a higher rate than intended, and after "fixing" it, the minimum costs were in line with what the maximum cost had been previously.

Most changes have seen the problems made worse instead of better. Most of the changes in progression 2.0 were - and still are - seen as negatives compared with the pre-2.0 state of the game by the majority of the playerbase.

The numbers are pretty clear on what needs to be done. All we're waiting on is the devs realising they need to stop forcing their mistake down people's throats.

There's and always will be free players in recruit, and sometimes veteran in the end (by harvesting free xp and non-taxed money).

You just want to play elite gratuitously.

The only problem in the game is the lack of tuning options in the recruit tiers.

HairballHacker#6104 posted (#post-114612)

Theobald#3611 posted (#post-114590)

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

So drop the free to play BS and charge an up front purchase price and be done with the F2P shenanigans. Cash shop for cosmetics.

Huh, it's not the same thing ? The point is to let people play in the minor league efficiently and for free. As you may have seen yourself.

All games go downhill.

It's just repulsive to people that don't want to spend a dime on it, and those people are not paying the bills anyway. Simple facts.

Someone has to understand how this game works...