Spork#2479 posted (#post-86520)
As a game designer, again, i say it to you : people not wanting to play the game as it is designed are a plague. Why ? Because of that problem exactly: instead of playing the part of the game they want, they want the game to become the game they want. Former is totally right, latter is not acceptable.
This is true in cases where people not wanting to play the game - yet still being vocal - represent a small minority. Let's not set up a strawman here though. DN players who are making forum threads asking for the game to be rolled back before Progression 2.0, are not throwing a tantrum because there's a part of the game they don't like. If it was true that they could "play the part of the game they want," they would while offering suggestions for the other part. However, the whole game is trapped within the all-encompassing tier system. We don't have a "free-play side" to play anything we want, and a "tier side" to play just with the current system. Thus, with the entire game in a state that they don't like, they are protesting (for lack of a better word) en masse.
We have established that players are not whiny children (despite your ad hominem "What players have to do is grow up and be adults"), but beta testers giving their opinions on DN's current state and future direction.
Man, the game is not yo your liking, go away. A designer has the prerogative to design its own game, not you. Not your taste, go play another game.
This is true; however, a designer must also keep in mind that the players are paying for the game. If a lot of players do not like the game, the designer must consider adapting to the players wishes to keep people playing and paying. The straw poll is evidence that players are not satisfied with the game. Out of about 200 people polled, 90% are not in favor of the current system. You have made the claim that this is not representative of the majority of the playerbase; please provide evidence to support your claim. If you have none, then the straw poll must stand as a basis for the debate going forward.
You cannot simply tell people, who don't like the current system, to "go play another game." This is a supermajority of the players - 90% - who would leave if we went strictly by your logic. Your logic being, 'like it or go away (or shut up).' Please correct me if this is not what you meant.
The straw poll is forum-based so it is undoubtedly going to be biased. Let's just be extraordinarily generous and say only 50% of people are dissatisfied with the tier system. On that assumption, half of the game's playerbase does not like DN as it stands. At what point is it no longer a problem with the players, but hubris on the part of the designer? The designer(s) must understand that the game is made for the players, and the players, in this case, just don't like it.
It's not a matter of whining or needing to grow up. Players just don't like Progression 2.0, and telling them - and their wallets - to go away is not a solution.
1- Okay let's see this the other way:
How do you monetize and make a living (and pay the servers) with the 1.1 version ?
2- Nothing has been established. Definitions have been swip-swapped to make them say what they don't say, but beta testing is beta testing, and whatever your faith is, there's no landslide protest.
Do you know how many beta keys have been given ? Activated ?
All you can say is that there are whiners who wants the game to be EASIER, the way it was, with all content unlocked directly, and only matches of the highest tier, which is unsustainable. And the whiners want the game to regress to a form that will not happen. It just has been said on another thread that the devs are changing stuff in the tech tree - not get rid of it, changing stuff. You have to deal with it.
Let's say you all are what you think you are - paid PROFESSIONAL testers who actually knows a lot about game design - not gaming, game design - you're NOT DOING YOUR JOB EITHER.
Your job is then to make notes and propositions on how to make the game better WITHOUT CHANGING CORE MECHANICS. That's what you're paid for.
See this proposition thread for an example https://www.greybox.com/dreadnought/en/forum/topic/42336/?page=1#post-86539
3- Nobody's paying. Devs don't care of whines of people not paying - they don't have yet actual representative complaints. They do care of meaningful polish touches or statistic changes. PR WILL SAY they're listening to you though (and it's not technically a lie - they're just listening).
4- You can't consider the 90% poll in any sense, for two reasons: it was signed by people that got the free stuff shower from the first beta state ; and it was signed by the people that were already coming there because they were disgruntled. That's two reasons that makes the poll totally bogus.
You want a true poll, you wait for them to make it in the launcher and mandatory. That's not white knighting, that's basic statistics.
5- I actually said people that wants a free game with no monetization mechanic and with different core mechanics should go play another game. They are really less numerous than you think - actually, i'm pretty sure that of the 90%, less than 10% would leave the game. And that's less then twenty on the whole beta, as you may calculate.
Strangely the poll wasn't about "i swear on my life i'll quit the game is 2.0 isn't deleted". it's about who doesn't like the changes (and that's nearly everybody, INCLUDING ME, a fact that seems to be forgotten every fourth second).
6- You've no proof that those 200 players are representative of the playerbase, whatever you want to be by clapping your hands. Only a real poll can make that known.
7- MY WHOLE POINT is that being disgruntled (even if it's 90%) doesn't mean the 2.0 has to be deleted (you do remember i'm not satisfied with the actual build, do you ?). There are a lot of means to diminish the grunt and keeping it. See propositions.
8- Whiners don't pay, claiming past mistrust. They even nurture an ecosystem of distrust and no-buy that makes them bad for a freemium. You're better with them away.