Hello people, after this came to my attention, i would like to add my thoughts.

As a veteran player, I have made posts about the state of the game in previous patches. After finding that much of the improvements were lacking, and after seeing the direction of the game not taking the path i imagined, i have since become discouraged to play. Personally, I find that the game is in the most restrictive and most under rewarding state it has ever been. Given that i have already made it to the end of the tech tree in the previous build, i was disappointed to find nothing new or interesting enough to justify the grind again.

While i think the Tier system was a direct, and inarguable step backwards, i understand how much work went into it, and why the Devs may be reluctant to scrap it. I think it is in all of our best interests to focus on fixing an obviously broken, and specifically not fun system. Personally, i would like to see maintenance vanish entirely. However upon further consideration for it to be reworked as an anti-leaver system, exclusively, i would be comfortable with it.

We can fix this, and i say "we" being the community. As we are the ones that play the developing product, we are in a unique position to discover how the game is progressing. We have seen in the past that the Devs listen to criticism, all be it in a lurking fashion with very little feedback. We should support this, as i personally would love to play this game, and i would love to interact with the Devs in-game. But currently, i just cant justify it. The downsides, outweigh the upsides, greatly.

Ultimately, I Agree with OP. Changes to the above OP, among others that i personally desire, such as legitimately new content like a map, or additional primaries and modules that i can easily unlock and play with, would be what it takes to bring me back. 8v8 was the best, and only step in the correct direction, all because it was "something new".

On a simple side note, I have argued from the start of my dreadnought account, the grind system should be removed for the purposes of testing the system, until release. As such, i would code the game where a module in "testing builds" to cost around 10fp, with the knowledge that on true release this is bumped to 100fp. Honestly, it is better to have people progress quicker to the cap, than slower when in testing. Agreed with OP, your move.

I will contribute in order to further the effort to dreadnought's recovery. I hate to see games diagnosed with cancer.

Hey people, this is a heartfelt message, intended for the Devs, but as it opens the floor, it could be for the community as well. I have a strong desire to see this game come to all i imagine it could be, as such i have a lot of dedication to games like this, normally. However, with the recent update i find myself conflicted. Being rather competitive, i try to work from a principal of skill to win games. I do my best not to exploit bugs, or use the simplest path to victory. Watching others, or doing it myself, often disgusts me. When i identify people exploiting something, i will often blame them for their actions, as it is their choice to be unfair, rather than the Devs choice. However, with the tier abuse the game is currently experiencing, i can only be left to blame the Devs. Unlike other games, i can't actually bring myself to blame people for exploiting, as the tier systems are not exploits, they are working as intended.

The state that the game is in, forces me to be placed into one of two categories, objectively weaker, or objectively stronger, and given how the matchmaking works, i cannot be sure what objective side will be on until the game starts. It is from this principal, that i cannot justify playing this game, at least until the next patch addresses the current tier mechanic. Either by making it significantly simpler to advance, or by making it ingame worthy to play as lower tier ships. I would suggest giving tier two ships secondary turrets, or by giving significant bonuses for killing higher tiers, with lower tier ships.

I find myself constantly trying to justify the grind, to what essentially is an unfair advantage, that is obtained by guaranteed victories, or unwinnable battles, extremely rarely is there a mid ground. As a veteran level 50, who is still fully in support of the development of this game, i just cannot bring myself to play a game, that is without argument, fundamentally broken. I do not find it enjoyable, and i know it is due to the lack of new, or interesting content, combined primarily with the absurd time it takes to get anywhere, grinding to not only an objective unfair advantage, but also back to the position i was previously in, before patch.

Currently, your GP currency is pointless, and frankly a rip off. In other F2P games, such as LOL, their real world currency is used to purchase playable tools, without the need to grind them. Your system however, does not do this, as your free exp mechanic, still requires a person to grind to obtain it, and it cannot be used as credits. No matter what, the time input into this game is pushed to the extreme, and the pay out is you are able to skullfuc* everyone, not due to skill, but due to the tier advantage. I deeply believe this version was very poorly considered, from design to implementation. I am left wondering what scenario manifested, that prompted many of these very clear miss-steps and decisions, that justifiably, should be strongly criticized.

I will return to the game in future releases, which means i will follow development on the various platforms. Thank you for the games thus far, Grey Box. I had very much enjoyed the experience previously. This patch however, brings to the table nothing but frustration, and disappointment. Should the Devs or others wish to talk, im always available on the discord. Sure, it likely wont happen, but the option is always there for my feelings, or my proposed solutions to be expressed over comms.

Until the next roll-out/patch.

Gray.

Additionally, the free exp mechanic, lets talk about that.

This mechanic also violently disgusts me, not because of its concept, but because of how expensive it is in this Free to play game. If 1 gp = 40 Fexp, then unlocking a t5 using my math, 1.945.500 Fexp = 48.637 GP. which using the highest conversion at $99.99 for 14000 would cost the player $400 to acquire the ability to convert 48.627 exp into free. The true price of this conversion will land you around $340. Well done Grey Box, this is what people use to define "rip off". This is not Star Citizen, you cannot justify this....... Seriously, Devs, i dare you, justify this......

Edit 1, also free exp cannot be used to purchase things that require credits. So even if you pay the $340 to get the ship unlocked, you still need to grind to get the absurd amount of credits.

Hello everyone, Gray here.

So in taking time off from Battlefield 1 and Titanfall 2, i was excited to play the new version of this game. After playing the game almost religiously in the previous version, i have identified one overwhelmingly important point of interest, that i think will be worth the attention going forward. This will be detailed criticism, with brief praises. I am attempting to remove any emotions from its presentation. I hope you, and more specifically the Devs take this criticism seriously. TL;DR included at bottom.

lets talk about the progression system.

The progression system, being the most obvious part of this patch, has a good heart. I can see what was intended with this new format. No longer do we have a system that promotes level grinding for unlocks. Instead, we now have a two stage research based unlock tree, where new hulls, and direct upgrades to modules are acquired. There are several pros and cons of this new system, lets look at those.

PROS

The system provides players with a "build your own progression" style of fleet management. This is a welcome change. In theory, i no longer feel like I'm just grinding for the sake of obtaining that one module at level 50. Instead i am provided with next tier modules, on a lower tier ship, where each module or tier hull higher, provides me greater options for module choices and advantages. I can now rush past many things i don't care about. Thus skipping tiers by around half, should i desire it. The knowledge of the three major factions is way more apparent now. This allows people to identify with lore easier, and mentally group factions in an easier way.

CONS

The system is SIGNIFICANTLY MORE grind heavy than the previous installment was. Even if you are rushing tiers, you will be stuck at tier 2 for a very long time, only to be suck at tier 3 for even longer, ect ect. Below I will argue that your current system is disgustingly grind heavy to the point of absurdity. In fact, this is the reason why T4 is so strong at this moment, more on that later.

With that out of the way, here is an in-depth analysis.

I did some math on the current system. Currently my average over the last 10 games was (credits) 19150 / 10 = 1915 (Exp) 31359 / 10 = 3135.9. This math is without Elite status. The average game lasts around 10-15mins. For simplicity, lets assume 15mins. Most que times, last around 5-10mins, lets assume 5 for a greater weight to my argument by providing more chances for games. Also every game i used was 10 victories in a row. At 20min (15+5) intervals we can assume a perfect scenario of 3 games per hour. Without taking into account peoples needs to eat, sleep, jerk off, whatever. Every day, a person could unreasonably achieve 72 games. I argue however, by taking into account eat, sleep, burnout, whatever, that a more realistic outcome would be half this, expecting that 36 games per day would be a far more likely reality. With that in mind, a dedicated gamer could achieve 68.940 credits, and 112.860 experience, over a 36 game day, assuming they win every game, and my average remains steady. With this rather generous assumption, we can start to work out the duration it will take to unlock the trees, with the intention to unlock the next tier in a rush. I am not taking into account the credits, as i do not know specific numbers without first researching the technology.

We will examine the Jupiter Arms destroyer line from Tier one to final tier. i do not see it necessary to do the math on the other paths, as all tiers have this same issue.

T1 Des. Two trees required to unlock. I had unlocked this entirely within 1 hour, and i can no longer see the math.

T2 Des. unlocked after 3-4 hours of play, with two trees. Fully unlocked, cannot see the math. However i have noticed that all technologies are cheaper to research with experience, which is the more common currency, but credits being the rarer currency, often costs more. This needs to change, as you need to avoid excessive grind.

T3 Des. 10050 experience / 50000 credits to unlock hull. A player will be required to dedicate one day to unlocking this hull via credits, before anything else..... Three trees to unlock next tier. Total research tree experience required to unlock research access to the next hull is 34.200. I can only predict that this will be far worse with credits, given the track record of the current system. Logically, we should assume around 1-2 days for a person to rush to the next tier. However the entire tree is 76.200, not including the logistic cruiser tech. Logically, by taking into account real life issues of living, unlocking just one full tier 3 will take you the better part of a week, but only IF you dedicate to that mission. Realistically, unlocking a full Tier 3 will take you several weeks, if not close to a month as most people will not dedicate, and will likely spend money elsewhere, then get discouraged by the investment of T3, and spend elsewhere until forced otherwise.

T4 Des. unknown unlock costs, but given the stupidity of a 50k credit T3 purchase, i can only assume the cost will be a 6 digit sum, which would violently disgust me. Regardless, from tier 4 to unlock the tier 5, you will be looking at four pathway unlock. The sum required to unlock credit purchase of T5 is 338.000. A full 3 hardcore days of complete victory. Which again is stupidly unrealistic, expand on this as you will. In truth, just to unlock to a t5, we should expect the pathway will take over or close a month for the average player, as the same logic of people spending their money around will apply. To unlock the full tree for credit purchase, you require 608.100 experience. 6 whole days of grind. With the same logic, we can easily put estimated time well over a month of non-dedicated purchasing. Again, keep in mind that credits are often harder to come by than experience, thus you will be slowed down considerably within this grind.

T5 Des, to fully unlock, the math is as follows. 1.261.200 total experience. I can only shudder and weep at the potential horrors of credit costs waiting for me at that level. Individual techs are 28k-57k experience. There is however a typo in pricing with T5 energy gen, where the price is 4800.

In conclusion to this, a Jupiter Arms Des will take somewhere around, being the most generous, and frankly freakishly Korean dedication, (1.945.500) 19 days of absurd hardcore grind. That means you would need to play around 684 victories in order to unlock a T5. This doesn't take into account the purchase costs of the T3-T5 hulls. Under more rational circumstances, a fair assessment would suggest the average player would put in around 3-6 months of grinding, distributing their money across their account different ways, to get their first T5. One could effectively argue that the majority of players may never achieve Tier 5 of any class, as the process to getting there is honestly far too painful in its current form, leading to people burning out, and leaving the game forever. This grind, is an ANTI-FUN mechanic. Combine that with other players having access to these ships, and higher, new players have to deal with being objectively weaker until they meet the grind requirements. This is not an issue so long as it is short term discomfort, however i think i have made a strong case to indicate a different reality.

This grind mechanic also allows for something else i have seen come up in this patch that DID NOT exist to this level of stupidity in the previous version. Pay to win T4. Firstly, DO NOT NERF the current hero ships, they are fine. The only reason they are dominating is because they are the only acts in town, as a result of this horrific grind. Never has there been so many Morningstars on the field at one point, being legitimately effective. This was not the case last patch! Again, the problem is not the T4, the problem is the grind system. People cannot fight them because they are ill-equipped. Unless you allow players to progress quicker, and thus overtake the hero ships within the week, this will remain a problem so long as hero ships exist. That, or you nerf the hero ships into the floor and render them useless, please don't do that. If not correctly addressed, this will damage the community. It is a simple fix, and it could all be solved within the week.

Now one could argue that your intention for this is to provide people with incentive to purchase Elite status. Not just for specific ship experience to free experience conversion, but also for extra credits, which is the most important factor in all of this. Given the inarguable blandness of the modules, ships, and guns, i can honestly say that people will quickly realize that a slight damage, or duration upgrade, coupled with a ship skin, is not enough to keep them interested over this ridiculous duration of grind time. As a veteran level 50 player, nothing really feels new, but everything does feel extremely restrictive. From obvious things such as the lack of secondary turrets until tier 3, is a profound oversight that needs to be corrected immediately. To simpler things like the T2 Nox's main gun not being automatic, but actually semi-auto, which is just annoying. I wish this wasn't the case, and given control over this design decision, i know of several ways i would have altered course.

Here is a suggestion to solve some of these issues. Allow the Tier ships to be unlocked immediately after unlocking the previous tier ship. You should be able to unlock ships with credits, free exp, or GP. GP unlocks will be much cheaper than the alternatives to facilitate the F2P model. This allows a system where grinding is a choice, where you can chose what specific thing to grind. Skiping to higher platforms quickly should be seen as an essential mechanic. Give people a different reason to use lower tier ships, like killing higher tier ships rewards players who use lower tier ships. People will naturally be motivated to go to T5 as fast as possible, thus being able to experience the game in its fullest, where people who are not rushing can still keep up by successfully combating higher tiers. The end result should always be making sure people are mostly equal in tech.

To players with a history of EVE, like myself, weeks of wait for 5% better, might be palatable. But that is only because i am a dedicated gamer, and in EVE, you can literally log out, and still be grinding. In Dreadnought, you cannot, you have to play to grind. This community will suffer from this grind decision, and i would STRONGLY consider cutting the grind requirements from T3-T5 by 3/4. On a side note, i am surprised there is still no volume sliders, nor additional primary or secondary turrets to speak of. These are things that are desperately needed far sooner than tier upgrading hulls and modules.

If you think this is an acceptable time frame to unlock ships, consider this. This is only a small examination of 51 possible trees......

TL;DR

The grind system is horrifying in its length to unlock one T5 even if going hardcore Korean. Around 19 days of pure grind, using my average. Which is around 684 victories. Distribute your money in anyway, or lose matches, or lose matches using veteran ships, and you will be slowed down considerably. This is also an unrealistic scenario, as i am often the highest on the score board each game, my games are not respective of the general population i encounter. This problem means that players will be restricted to Tier 2 for a rather long time, and even longer for the proceeding tiers. And honestly, Tier 2 is horribly restrictive gameplay, thus NOT FUN, or often boring. The fun comes with getting a bigger, more powerful ships. This current system rewards players with excessive dedication, like myself, to the point where skill is irrelevant. The people that put in more time, will have stronger ships and win more games. Previous to this patch, i had a 80% win rate, i can only see this becoming higher if i continually play in higher tier ships, which would be the logical thing to do when grinding.

But these are just my thoughts, what do you think?

The fighters like all projectiles or abilities have a limited life, so the first group is typically dead long before you can launch the next wave. From what i have noticed, fighters tend to engage within a 4K radius, however only the devs could give specific numbers. The fighters are unarguably useless in comparison to any of the other slot 1 abilities. While it is a dream of mine to have a Carrier so i can throw ships around the map, you would be significantly better off just ignoring their existence.

Well Wyvyrias, that's a great question. You see it all started one day when i was walking down a small dark alley with nothing more than a joyous expression on my face and a song on my lips. Being that it is winter here, my exposed chest was beyond unacceptable for public viewing, once i realised this it was too late. A magical fairy appeared before me. The fairy said "MORALLY!", naturally i shreaked at the shear volume of its reverberating voice on those cold brick walls. "y..y..yes" i said, it pointed at me with is twinkle dust wand and said, "make sure that all your statuses have your name in it so people can wonder why you put your name in the title every time". This was odd to me, "what for?" i inquired. A stern look was fixed on me, "look, just do it, K?". without a better answer to this, i just conceded the topic "Oh ok, i guess that puts my mind at rest, ill do it".

And that's why i have to do it, because fairy.

So i have finally rectified my chat issues, however im not sure if its set in stone yet, i'm still talking to support about the bizarre issues i was having, i believe it was tied to the amount of people on my list.

Anyhoo, i would like to understand the various commands to manually whisper to people and the like, are the commands simplified as in other games where you can simple /g /w /s, or am i required to do something else to respond to people in-game through whispers?

Gray.

Yer did that, nothing.

For about 5 days now ive been having some rather frustrating server issues. I currently cannot see the names on my friend list, or the names on my add list. I cant be put properly into groups, ill join them but i wont join games with them. I cannot use the chat, nor can i see the chat. I cannot buy from the market. Oddly i can still play the game unaffected.

Anyone got anything similar?

Gray.