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I recall devs saying on another thread that the much hated Tier system is here to stay and that they would be focusing on balancing.

RIP Dreadnought I guess


Vigilant#3864 posted (#post-62456)


It does look like they put "monetization" ahead of "fun".


Three reasons I am here.



  • I like the base gameplay, it is fun, but they are making it really hard to have that fun.

  • I don't expect this game to have lifespan, so I'm playing it now before it vanishes. Hopefully they prove me wrong.

  • We have our own PVP game coming out in 2018. I am learning so much about what not to do.



Which is funny cause they would no doubt make a ton more money selling cosmetic items to a healthy playerbase than boosters to a rapidly withering one.

Think about it, would you be willing to deck out your ship with different sections when you know your ship will be with you for a good amount of time and will be a good ship to play with? Probably yeah

Now compare it to this model where ships are discarded as trash after next tier is reached. Do you want to invest in a ship which you know is not going to be with you for long and you are going to discard it soon? Probably not.


The only ships most people would be willing to invest are those they enjoy playing with, and those reside in the T4 to T5 range... Plot twist, many many many quit before they reach that point equaling to no money for the devs.


Surely the devs can't be so that they haven't realized it as well. It doesn't even seem to be about monetization anymore, it's pure madness at this point.


obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-61779)


We already HAVE been removing ourselves. The mass exodus from the game is why there are so many problems with the queue times even though the bugs with it have been fixed. Devs have confirmed the queues ARE fixed, ARE working, and ARE just taking ages because nobody is still here.



Pretty much this. The devs seem to be in a big denial that a problem exists. Mostly with tiers numbing everything down and the maintenance ruining the rest, With all this happening I saw a dev mention that tiers are not going away despite being the reason for the outcry...

http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png


Noctamis#2571 posted (#post-62015)


Have you ever seen someone who is not your level? Im quite sure that this is a bug, because everyone is always the same rank as i am.

Aside from that battles with your recruit fleet are a safe way to farm credits. The possibility of losing more than you earn is a big turn off for most players. But veteran battles are not too bad for farming credits either, if you occasionally avert paying maintenance with a high score on the losing team. Several players in their T4 Koshei probably never once had to pay maintenance because of their high scores.


I agree that farming for credits in a T3 ship is probably the least efficient method of farming and i would rather spend my time in a recruit fleet until ive got my T4 ship. But after that i would recommend playing with your T4 ship. Your chance to reach a high score are good enough and after some games you should try to feel comfortable with battles in the veteran fleet. It won't be so bad after a while. Playing higher tier ships is a lot more fun than the boring T2 fleet setups.



Playing high tier games is indeed fun. Shame you are punished for playing them. You already drop to a quarter of your income when you hit T3 if you lose, how can you possibly make more money in T4? I mean the W/L ratio should be around 50% for a balanced MM so even if you play to your average, your income drops significantly as you progress in the game all the while prices and whatnot all rise. Depending on getting to top 3 is not what I would call a reliable way to farm for credits...


Yeah, it's a fun game. Too bad it takes too much grind to actually get there. And even then you are punished hard for doing so.


DanielAlex#7337 posted (#post-61374)


Your concept is pretty interesting and i would love to try such a research system out but I think your approach is a little bit to radical.

Also, I don´t think it is a good idea to give you all ships right at the beginning. There is a reason why you have to wait so long to get a Koschei: Unexperienced players don´t have a chance against its healing powers. It is the same problem with some other ships and modules.

There should be some kind of restriction which prevents you from unlocking such ships and modules directly at the beginning ,but it still is a very good concept which could lead to a better and more rewarding progression system.



If you balanced the game so that each starter was equal, and the progression went sideways towards sidegrades from the original starters, there would be no issue with it.

Forums area a sample size of the total playerbase. Mix a 667 white pearls with 333 black pearls into a bowl and take a handful. Chances are that there are somewhere around 33% black pearls.

Now forums attract the vocal minorities, but even then 12/17 threads on the front page claiming various issues from the update, can't argue against it at that point anymore. The update has ruffled the majority of the players.


From the 8 people I know who play DN, 6 quit after the patch. I imagine others have similar stories to tell. Unless DN devs give us actual figures, it's all guesswork based on the forums and personal experiences, but judging by the terrible queue times, it's pretty bad.


So would you kindly lower the "you don't have statistics so your opinion can be discarded" attitude just a tad please.

Just click on the + icon next to your other ships on the bottom screen, hangar tab. smile

I completely agree with your post.

All of the new gameplay is just a diluted experience of the potential of the game. A type of gameplay you will not experience until you've already exhausted yourself playing the bland, soulless and ultimately unfair grindfest that is the current "progression" chart.


In all the time I've seen games developed, times like these are rare. They seem to be purposefully killing the game by watering the entire game down to nothing but a faint hue of the great, original experience. It's a sad echo of a game that held so much promise.


Imrahil#3251 posted (#post-60680)



Hydra#9516 posted (#post-60679)



The problem is that the last update drove away a large part of the player base. If you give away more beta keys now, the new players will not stay for long. But if things are going (hopefully) better with the next update the old players will come back and then there is a chance for the servers to go down because of overpopulation if you handed out too many keys.



Oh you're right, didn't think about that



Actually, judging by the influx of new faces in the forums I would say they are consistently putting out more and more invites. They're apparently convinced you can put out a fire by peeing on it smile



I think a big bunch of the "new" players on the forums are people who already gave up on the game, and came back to test out the game again after hearing about the update. Just like myself and I know at least 3 others who did the same.

Each and everyone of us is sorely disappointed. They took the bad ideas from successful games thinking they are the key to success, but the devs are obviously not paying attention to the testers who are giving them bad rep. And the devs fully deserve it at this point.

At least in CrossOver the devs finally acknowledged their mistake with durability system and removed it entirely after 90% of the playerbase abandoned the game, and the remaining 10% kept complaining about it to no end. A sad story, but the game seems to be slowly recovering from it due to the devs finally listening to precious feedback.


After all, what's the point of having beta testers if you ignore what the grand majority of the testers say?

Hello, I am nobody, but I still love and adore big spaceships shelling everything they have towards each other.


So of course I gave the game a whirl. I played about a year ago and boy did this update mess things up.

The biggest issues right now are:


-Ships of different tiers

A higher tier ship is a tougher, faster, stronger and prettier than the one before it. This leads to many problems. Especially with MM. You are trying to prevent massive power disparity by shattering the playerbase into 3 categories. This leads to increased queue times and a poor player experience. Hardly a good thing. Queue times alone aren't bad enough, but the hopeless feeling of always having to go against ships of higher tiers makes it feel unfair and unbalanced.


-Ships feel like shi*s

Starting out the game with watered down, bland versions of the upcoming ships gives a terrible first impression. With no room to experiment, the player misses out the core idea of outfitting your ship, making it truly yours. What you get is a forced grind through ships that you would not want to play in order to get the one you want. Having to sit through tens of hours to even catch a glimpse of what the actual gameplay might be is really offputting. This further dilutes the new player experience.


-Ships become obsolete

With the tiering system, the game becomes a race to get the next best thing. You play the game in order to get to play the actual game. This means that you really feel the grind to get the next ship, and discard the previous one. There is no incentive to stick with a ship, there is no incentive to customize it (not like you really have any options)


-Research and GRIND

Ask anybody, nobody likes to be penalized for losing (except for the few sadists out there). You double up the already tedious process of researching and buying new ships with REPAIRS. Already at T3 the repair bill is as high as your rewards, so you only progress if you win. This creates tremendous frustration towards the game and leads to players quitting.

And the research, oh boy the research. You force players to play different ship classes entirely in order to get to what they want. This is just bad.


So how do you fix this?

Make ships sidegrades. Flat out remove this horrible tiering system, and rework the research and you consequently remove the grind that drives away players faster than they come.

You can achieve this like so:

-Give the player the option to choose his desired path at start, giving them a free ship from any of the manufacturers. This ship should be as powerful as any other ship.

-Alternate the loadout options, for example give some ships 2 secondary slots and take away an internal slot. Do as you see fit to give personality to them. Make these variants branch off from the default ship. Some may have increased speed, some may have increased armor. THESE SHIPS could need the research from the default ship, but the chain of research shouldn't be too long. No more than 2 ships at most.


The result of that alone is enough to greatly diversify the battlefield. You will see all of the ships on the roster since players won't be outgrowing their ship, they will pick the proper sidegrade of that vessel and play the game exactly the way they see fit. And they will be having fun, much more than the current tier model allows.

The model does remove the grind, but you could make it so that you get certain briefings from different variants, making the player have to branch out a little if they really want to make the exact ship they want. THESE BRIEFINGS would be achievable from playing a same ship class from a different manufacturer, not a different ship class entirely as it currently is. It would bring back some of the grind, enough to keep the players invested, but not enough to drive them away.


Another bonus is that instead of dividing the playerbase with Tiers/MMR, you can only focus on MMR shortening the queue times!


As a major bonus, players will actually feel compelled to purchase cosmetics! Right now with the "grow out of your ship" model, there is no reason to decorate your ship. You will ditch it anyways making any purchase a waste. This is a suicidal businessmodel for a F2P game when people do not want to buy stuff until later tiers, and most will never even reach it before giving up. It's all lost money for the devs.


Anyway, that's my suggestion. I hope it makes some sense and I really wish the devs would for once listen to their forums. The grand majority of Crossout hated the durability system, and the devs eventually ditched it, fundamentally changing the game for the better. I would love to see the same thing happening here.


TL;DR

Remove long research branches, remove tiers, give the player the option to buy any default ship . Balance all ships as sidegrades, equal to one another, but with different strengths. You get the variants of the ships from research that stems from the defaul ship.

This removes the "disposable" nature of ships, players will want to invest in their ship and the new player experience is much greater than what it currently is. With briefings coming from different ships/variants, there is enough incentive for the player to keep playing the game.