Point made. an honorable is good. That said, I didn't plunk down sizeable chunks of money for ships to voluntarily never use them again because it's seen as somehow taking advantage. Having locked loadouts is already a handicap. While I bought them for the cosmetics primarily I still enjoy taking them out. Having veterans in lower tiers is essentially what the individual player makes of it. If your advocating said player gives pointers, offers examples of teamwork, and generally looks to help anyone that wants it while playing, those are great things. Looking to have ships further handicap isn't going to disuade those that enjoy farming new players from doing so, or somehow encourage them to switch their ethics to be "fair" players. While you have a great point, I'm not sure this issue is something best solved by game code.

Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-223223) said:

Tyrel#8199 posted (#post-223220) said:

I left this game months ago because of this specific issue... Now I thought to myself "hey, let's see how Dreadnought is doing, maybe it's worth going back now?", and what's the first thing I spot here? "Death Squads".


This already was an issue when I picked up the game and it was the one that made me - and I'm sure many others - leave... and Greybox is still not doing anything about it.

I remember we had suggestions around these forums about how to fix it, even I wrote some, but all we were met was ignorance by the devs, and acid spew by the handful of arseholes who actually make up the death squads.

This game will die soon if the MM doesn't get fixed, and you know what? It completely deserves it.

MM Is going to change "soon" at some point before steam launch, that is also happening, "soon".

People have been saying this game is dead since I started playing, over a year ago, it's been declared dead at least 4 times that I've seen my self. Still here though.

Another point to add, since the creation of this thread I've not seen a single squad in veteran. Maybe It's the times I've been playing. Maybe its because legendary matches where going on, or maybe it's no longer as big of a problem as this thread is making out. I can only go on what I'm seeing in game. The Devs have the data to know how big of a problem it is.

At an average of 1/4 of the matches I see... it's not an insignificant number. But that's squads we're talking about... throw in general MM'ing rediculousness of flat lumping 3 or more 50's in maxed 4's vs a team with a mix of 3-4 still grinding modules and you have what I see. I don't blame the squads, playing with friends is fun. I do blame the MM and Greybox for letting it persist this long. ... or maybe the issue is bigger then your downplaying. It's all very subjective. Worth noting that a large portion of the player base has been talking about this for over a year... that should tell you something. Anyhow games are what they are. To me, it looks good, and can be fun 3 in 4 times aside from Wargaming-like grind and income levels vs cost of modules T3 an up.

What's really funny.... you'll hear "team play" from the death squad folks... but bear in mind they've found the most efficient way to grind AND have fun. Good luck getting them to voluntarily give that up, that's just not how human nature works.

Devs have been told for over a year that the MM'ing was an issue with squads, like the sort mentioned, run unmatched by an equal squad on the other side. There was a lot of reasons tossed out, primarily being a lack of population and que times. This indeed made sense when Vet matches were 3 min ques and legendary were non existant outside pre arranged groups in discord. While Legendary has improved only slightly... recruit ant vet matches have been prolific and as close to constant drop as one could hope for this summer.... and yet here we sit. With the same "anything goes" MM'ing outside of the protected status for people in T1/2 ships. Used to be super fun when they had it wide enough to include T2's vs T4's.

Currently the end result of this missed opportunity is just a continuation of the same old... Legendary players farm T3's in T4 matches, grouping for maximum effect and profit because due to such sparse legendary match making for many reasons. Currently there's little reason for them to move on as T4 farming is arguably most efficient.

Until they either change MM'ing, or code some sort of reduced reward for legendary players participating in lower matches (merely an example not a condoned solution) this isn't going to change. I've heard a lot of PS4 players say it's "not so bad", but then again they don't have to deal with the long standing PC vet population either.

So your here...on THIS forum ....telling us because you... A - think it's a widespread community worthy issue or B - you somehow entirely missed any options to address said streamer directly

....can you show us on the doll where the bad ship touched you?

Splitting the player base just right is an art really. It's what any game needs to do to provide a semblence of fair gameplay in a multiplayer environment. Too much and game que rates slow down, too little and in that free for all you get what many refer to as "death squads" or "pub stomps" etc... At this point, I see the game being hampered by a MM tuned to pre-summer population levels where, in the interest of que times, anything goes basically.

What I'd like to have seen, for this summer, is over a certain population threshold the ques matching squads against squads with solo que people filling in the gaps. Sadly they've missed their window I'm afraid, an opportunity missed.

To be clear, again. I have no issues with long time player groups squading up. Teamwork has a heavy hand in this game in regards to enjoyment.

What I am saying is, for many, that playing against unmatched squads of max rank players in maxed out T4's farming veteran matches... isn't fun in MOST cases. We can debate fringe and possibility cases all day. I'm mainly speaking in regards to ques and that necessitates speaking in terms of a general majority. If they can get a hand on that, they've got a REALLY strong game here. But I think the entire issue is hampered by the same issue that's plagued development since the start... it's glacial when it comes to dealing with some clutch long standing issues.

PNG - Crisalyx013#7903 posted (#post-222693) said:

Hello all , sorry in advance for my english , and i hope you will understand me .

Since some days , i saw a big problem with some players . This players start matchmaking , and try to play , and when they a killed 1 or 2 times , they leave the game . And i think it's for some reason like stats , because when you leave , you don't loose any stats , or sometimes they tell us in the chat , " f****g MM , good luck " , and it's a really frustration for me . I understand when you crash , or if you are tired about the game 1 time ok . But when you leave 5 games on one day , stop play and go breath , because when you leave , it's a bot sometimes that play at your place , and sometimes , nothing ...

Sometimes i fought against good team like AaD , LYB , or some good players , and i don't leave . i do my best on all game i play , and if i see it's a bad day , i stop , and i play other game , or get a break . But it's a problem for other players who stay and i think , now a penality is necessary .

For exemple if you leave 3 games on one day , can't play for 1 hour , or other we can décide it , but i think now , we need to do something against this leavers .

So i hope you understend me and have a nice day and GL HF in game =)

You managed to mention one of the WORST things Greybox has managed to not fix yet... matchmaking regarding squads. Currently it's VERY common to find yourself in a game with a 4 squad of AaD or LYB, max levels in T4's farming the opposite side that has NO squad AND no max level players flying mixed bag of T3's and non maxed T4's. Do I blame this on AaD or LYB, no. They're having fun, as it's allowed. I do blame Greybox for not doing anything to fix the matchmaking. Player counts are clearly up this summer, with game que's going off rapidly. Yet they've done nothing to alleviate matchmaking imbalance that has long been blamed on lack of players for it's continued existence. Now they have players, and matchmaking still disregards matching squads or player level.

Until that's addressed, while I can't condone it, you're likely to continue seeing people leave matches where a single max tier and player level squad is allowed to pub stomp the other team with no equal match up.

Lilith#8091 posted (#post-220604) said:

There will be no bad steam reviews at the launch, beacause all new players will get "Wow-effect" from nice graphics and new interface that devs are working on right now.

Then, all newcomers get "sheltered matchmaking" for some time.

And when some players get their level and MMR to the point where game ruled by squads and trashy matchmaking - Steam will be full with good reviews, and their opinion will not matter at all.

So calm down people, your favorite matchmaking is gonna stay with you, no matter what!

While true to some limited degree I think you're missing some insight. The "wow effect" is sufficient to keep them interested until they discover the grind and unsheltered MM. Once those two things hit along with with long time players pug stomping in kill squads that aren't matched by MM to balance teams, they'll hit the negative reviews in droves. Likely a good thing if that's what it takes to wake the devs up to what has been said since closed beta. The MM is horrid, even if they did have sufficient players. It wasn't good when it had peak interest, it's not good now, it won't be then. While I sincerely applaud the graphics, ideas, and work that's gone into this title so far... it still feels like the dev team as a whole, is still lost on finding a priority list that smoothly transitions them out of beta, into open, and on to polished. At present they're putting out fires and hanging curtains while the house still barely has walls or working plumbing. Time will tell if they ever get their act together.

LYB-FooJub#4039 posted (#post-209761) said:

And part of my point was limiting group size won't do jack to stop that.

Actually it will...but I take the comment you've made with the fact I've watch LYB group stomping in vet regularly. So it's not exactly unexpected. I've yet to see LYB vs LYB due to solo queing to make a game fair. Matter of fact I still have the footage lay'n about of a 3 man LYB crew max level players in maxed t4's absolutely curb stomp a random vet game. Sure your good, but then against a mixed bag of players in t3's with only 2 t4's and not'd have to try not to be. Then again I did appreciate learning some things from LYB, like how you can simultaneously fire your primary and secondaries to double up your dps...

This quick tip brought to you by the LYB crew - double your firepower quick an easy when used correctly or with the right weapons... How you say? Simply macro, with zero delay... primary, switch weapon, secondary, switch weapon. How cool is that. LYB said it's known and fine. Enjoy and be sure to thank them when you see them.