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It's very hard to accept it was a bad call if the idea was going to leave it like this, imagine having your time and resources already spent and you know it's not right. But to progress, it's important to admit you're doing it wrong.


I hope someone on the dev team actually reads this because, as I said, it's not about holding some kind of sick pleasure on slamming on something, it's about actually caring about the game.

Love hurts. Everybody hurts.


Why is it so hard to love someone or something?


I loved you, Dreadnought game thing.


I come here every now and then to see if any change to the game is being done since the latest patch deployed and still nothing.


The game I played was so good. I was up all night and left office early to play some more Dreadnought. What I played a month ago was really good.


One day I wake up on sunday and remember about the game, take a zip of coffee and read the dread-ful patch notes:


A Tier System has been implemented


WHY. WHY.


I don't mind some grind to unlock ships. I don't mind paying for a service when the service is worth the price/time/fun. But this patch is horrible, and even if I wanted to play, it never finds any match whatsoever now. And even if I found a match, I now have to start with a fishing boat instead of playing with a dreadnought in the Dreadnought game.


WHY


Don't mean to be rude, my love


Why did you do this? Why did you let it happen, dev team?


I want to spend money in the game I liked. I want my Zmey to have a big a-ss greek sculpture on the front and ram people with it. To shoot all broadside weapons into the enemy awhile positioning to defend my teammates. I want a tactical-based teamwork game with giant capital ships. Maybe a Ranked mode. To unlock these hero-like inspiring designs from the lore manufacturers and fight like the Captains the players are supposed to be.


But no. Now I have to somehow "earn" the fun out of it just because.


Tier systems DO NOT WORK. It's power creeping and it fragments the demographic you want to reach. Nobody wants to play low tiers for long, and certainly less players will reach the top. And you CANT MATCH THEM TOGETHER BECAUSE BALANCE ISSUES.



So now you have 5 queues and a balancing nightmare nobody wants to be part of. That's without coming into play with the maintenance costs.


In the context of a fast "quickmatch based" game it doesn't work.


If the game somehow was a persistent Conquest Mode with each battle representing a planet or territory against player made factions, it kinda makes sense because there's a new and more in depth layer of a metagame going on. If this was the case, the more invested players would appreciate to climb in power to deploy and warmonger planets, and to draft new players in for their motives. That's kinda cool, ain't it?


Sadly, it's not like that. Mechwarrior Online has been trying to do this for some years. Shortcomings of that other F2P aside, the idea is solid. That game survives because it has a QuickMatch Button and a Faction Warfare button.


**Quickmatch could be the good old fun Dreadnought game without the power creep or grind. Just a competitive 10 min battle. Fast addictive and straight to the point. You buy ships akin to LoL champions or MWO mechs and battle with them.


Faction Warfare button has the Tier Grid and a separate Shipyard. Losses have an impact. Victories are delicious. Purchased cosmetics can be applied to both game modes.**


And still, ranting aside, linear Tiers and straight improvements are a problem because:


They interfere with the fantasy of the game

They interfere with the balance and cause frustration

To gimp a player with less features doesn't teach anything to said player to improve

It doesn't show what the game is actually about

Fragments the community unnecesarily


When some of the posters that come around the forums post so winded up, they don't try to be rude. They took their time to let out frustration in the forums and come back because they somehow CARE ABOUT THE GAME. THEY WANT THE GAME TO SUCCEED.


Some people don't know or understand what goes behind the curtains and how hard it is sometimes to push a project onwards in a deadline, or how the development time and costs work. I know the time and effort was spent on the latest patch and you have good will because it is your business and you want it to succeed, it's just sometimes we need to take a step back and rethink our path, and even redo over some things to improve and keep moving.


You have a good thing going on here. Dreadnought was a good game. Don't go into the WoT territory. It's dead and it's bad business.


Good luck and I hope it goes in the right direction at the end of the day.

Progression or SENSE of progression is a good thing indeed. It keeps people wondering about the next step they will take, and keeps the base game fresh.


But it's not about writing the whole book again. Many F2P games have already tried and stumbled and reworked and succeded or failed in the many years of the F2P model becoming an attractive business.


THINGS THAT WORK


Gameplay variations through grinding

Selling cosmetics for real money

No paid advantages whatsoever, never ever, in any form

Balanced gameplay to funnel into competitive Ranked modes

Rewards for loyal customers

Rewards for "invite a friend" programs

Constant updates, big or small

Developer Feedback, constantly

Staying true to the fantasy that the product uses to draw people in

Optimized engine to reach many system specs (sadly sometimes even if I like things pretty)


THINGS THAT DO NOT WORK


Pay to win/ real money advantages

Linear Tier systems on powercreeping

Isolating the community through enforced queues (tiers)

Balance issues

No interest in competitiveness or Ranked Modes at some point

Monthly Fees, that was a one trick pony and the market shifted now

Devs not involving themselves in the growing communities or clans that emerge

Demanding system specs/unoptimized engine


To be quite honest and real, not even League of Legends was good in their humble beginnings. The game was a mess but did many things right and improve itself from being a really ugly game, whose only redeeming quality was "kinda fun"and "free" into the most played F2P game now.


obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-56835)


That's... like... the worst possible type of free-to-play model. It's objectively and undeniably pay-to-win, unless they massively revamp how the progression system works.


That said, they NEED to massively revamp how the progression system works, because as is very clearly being shown by almost every comment so far, it's horrible and terrible and bad in every way. Historical games "get away with" doing it because of the sense of a trip through history. Even in those games, that progression is generally seen as a major reason for player numbers to decline, and a major negative which players leave as a direct result of.


Solutions:


1 My long-time-ago suggestion of a reversed tier system

https://www.greybox.com/dreadnought/en/forum/topic/6298/


Make the starter ships the best ones, and have slight alterations which act as DISADVANTAGES as you progress through the tiers - basically, by proving you're good enough to go to a higher tier, you give yourself a handicap. Earn more credits/pay less repair costs and gain a small XP boost, but get objectively WEAKER (if only in small ways) ships as you "advance".


2 The suggestion of having varied but equivalent ships in an expanding tree, rather than a linear T1 is weaker than T2 is weaker than T3, etc. system.


Basically the suggestion that kept getting +1ed for the first few pages after it was presented in the following:



SolisObscuri#9939 posted (#post-52435)


Here's a suggestion: replace imbalance and boring grind with something interesting a rewarding, that lets player feel useful and enjoy customizing their playstyle.






+1 for this idea


If anything has to be done WITHOUT ERASING THE LAST PATCH ENTIRELY it has to be balance like above.


They're options, variants, not straight upgrades.

Tier power creep doesn't work on any game, paid or not.

It's a waste of development time and resources and it's surprising that came all the way into a release.


It only creates frustration, no sense of progression, more balance issues, matchmaking issues, fragmented community and the obvious Pay 2 Win trap.


Nobody likes it, nobody would have voted for something like it, and certainly without it the game would fair better against competition.


If some people come to this forum every now and then is for sheer interest and love for the game people played before the patch. Their posts shouldn't be dismissed so lightly; They are the demographic and the niche for it.


Something something Mechwarrior Online drama minimally viable product.


Scotterpop#2225 posted (#post-56857)

What sense does it make to force players to do things that are not fun in order to get to the fun part?



It doesn't. It's artificial content, instead of introducing actual different ships, gameplay styles and gamemodes.. It's the bad F2P way.


I would even pay for a full priced Dreadnought game if it didn't came with this absurd milking scheme.


obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-56836)


I have not (yet) deleted this game in response to the horribly awful tier system being horribly awful.


Unlike World of Tanks and other games like it, this game has a few things in its favour:


The smaller playerbase is one factor - there obviously aren't enough players to sustain this kind of model, and the devs are seeing that they HAVE to listen to us in order to retain any players (and therefore to keep making money). Another major factor is that this game is not yet released, and the devs already have a history of listening to feedback and correcting mistakes. We have seen solid about-faces on several points where the players have been obviously and consistently calling for a change to be reverted or changed in a different direction.


I won't be PLAYING until I see that there's been a major change to the progression system, but I won't be uninstalling until I've given up hope on this problem being solved.



Same thing here. Before the Tier patch arrived I loved the game. If only I knew there was going to be a progression system I wouldn't have downloaded the game AT ALL since the beginning.


I like the game just enough to wait until the Tiering is gone or the grinding is almost meaningless in some way, or a conquest mode gets implemented to at least make some sense in it. Besides I have Titanfall 2 to entertain myself for a long long time. Also the mods post regularly some -evasive- answers but at least they're posting about it.


Otherwise wouldn't even bother.

Maybe it's because no one is actually playing anymore.

Is there anyone that finds the WoT progression and grinding remotely interesting or fun at the end of the day?

Is there anyone that is an actual gamer that would defend this progression system in any way?

Been saying this since the latest patch hit


same thing happened to WoT. Low tiers can't get a match because the community grew small and nobody wants to play low tiers, and high tiers can't get a match because nobody wants to pay the maintenance costs AND the grinding and matchmaking on top of it leaves you in a tiny island.


But you can't get matched with the middle people, because tiers.


Saying "I said so" just didn't quite say it.