I' getting kinda tired right now as well. Shame. I love the idea of the game. will give it another shot in a week or so.

You're right, the 50 ships thing was kinda lame. The current system would have needed much more and smaller steps to work as intended I think.

I can only speak from my own experience and I don't consider myself a pro. Also I never intended to go "L2P" on you.

In fact, I strongly agree with your last post.

I have only made it to T3 as of yet and believe vette attacks to be survivable.

It seems to me, that balancing discussions always boil down to 1v1 comparisions. In an 8v8 team game.

If it's true (which I have no reason to doubt) that you can kill any ship with your corvette in mere seconds I suspect you managed to sneak up to them and got them completely by surprise? If so, how easy is that? In theory there should be up to eight pairs of eyes watching for you and the enemy team should ideally be positioned in a way that they can a) mess up your approach and/or b) blast you apart should you decide to go in anyway. So how easy is it really to murder a dude with impunity within seconds while he can do absolutely nothing about it? How does that change if there are no isolated targets?

Again I don't question your experience or skill. I asked because I'd like to hear your perspective on that.

Quayjay#4843 posted (#post-81085)

This is actually a great idea but the developers have far more important things to be doing at the moment. Like balancing the game and retaining players.

True, but not every member of the team is working on game design/coding stuff. Some build maps (probably the job they were hired to do and are best at) and that's a good thing.

As for the map: Depends on the world they want to create, really. I can see why people think it's cool, but I also see some actual thought put into world building in DN and I think that should not be compromised but built upon. Example: If you would call it "The Hanging Gardens of Whatever", make it obvious that it was no natural formation and then handwave it with some obscure Transhuman tech (pretty much what they did with the whole terraforming idea), it would be a whole different thing. In my opinion consequent, cohesive design is prefereable to just a bunch of cool ideas (don't get me wrong, this is a cool idea) thrown together without thought. I like the idea but don't see it fit the setting given our limited knowledge of the lore and more importantly the design of the rest of the game's world.

It was a bit late last night, so I might not have been super clear on what I meant:

First of all I agree that the maintenance mechanics really need adjustment as it is extremely punishing at times to actually grind your way through to the one ship you want and then throw your credits away just at keeping it running while you learn how to handle it. For that reason (as Quay said) noobfarming is a thing in this game. The fact that it happens because level 30 players need the credits desperately enough to stay in recruit, is a proof that maintenance is not helping the system. There is no way to make it impossible but players should have no incentive to do it. So I guess we agree there.

But consider this: Is the fact that you with your experience in the game, the muscle memory, the knowledge of the individual ships' strengths and weaknesses are able to obliterate a bunch of noobs on the same tier not an indicator that skill is more important than stats in the game? Those people who "exploit the p2w" by getting a t4 hero ship right off the bat ARE the noobs that get farmed. Only they get farmed in veteran. And that SHOULD be the case. The game SHOULD be skill-based, not P2W.

I played the Morningstar myself before and after the tier system and i can immedeatly tell if somebody knows what he's doing or if he just bought a huge, shiny ship and hoped that would suffice.

Please correct me here, if I'm wrong (I didn't check honestly) but from what I recall you could actually build a Morningstar from scratch with the available upgrades to a t4 medium dread (at least that used to be the case). The only difference would be the looks. Everybody to actually do that would know why they chose that layout and have the skill to make the most of it.

In reply to what Obliviondoll said about Elite Status: Yeah, I honestly totally forgot the whole thing existed. I agree with you on that. There is not much I could add to that. In my opinion the best way to get me to pay is to make an awesome game that I WANT to support. Making it a pain to get anywhere in the game except I pay regularly is a bad move in my eyes. In fact: I got my key for free and bought a pack two weeks or so later so I could get my friends in, get that awesome looking ship and support a game that I really enjoyed and wanted to happen.

I hope that clarifies my previous post a bit.

Raging#8976 posted (#post-81104)

Penxop#4266 posted (#post-80976)

That aside, there are valuable modules against vettes for every class: Autoguns, Armor Amps, Scrambler Pulse (my favorite), Flak Cannons, all kinds of stasis effects.

oh, but how are you supposed to use those modules when Corvettes have disrupt pulse?

anyone who agrees vettes shouldn't have disrupt pulse say "aye!"

As I said in the first paragraph: If the corvette is able to completely destroy you in the six seconds your modules are unavailable, you messed up. If your team does what it should be doing and you are where you are supposed to be, it is more than possible to survive a vette's attack run. That is at least my expierience.

All that said I think that one of the main problems lies in the perception of the player being attacked. Vettes are designed to fight dirty. They are basically assassins. Therefore being killed by a corvette can sometimes feel cheap.

I personally think, that a reliable way to counter any and all vettes in the game would make the corvette class a complete joke though. In my opinion is, that there should not be a reliable way to counter a specific class with 100% certainty. I mean, what would be the point then?

Personally I think the P2W-idea that some players (not only Quayjay) have commented on is not exactly valid and this is why:

There are two different things you can spend your money on in DN: Vanity stuff like coatings and such and Free Expierience. Free Expierence gives you an edge in the grind, that is true. Not a huge one considering you still need the credits but an edge nontheless. The main reason I'm still okay with that is that a larger ship is not an instant win. Before I get dismissed as a fanboy, I would like to address the concept of skill ceilings and skill floors. DN as I experienced it has both a high skill ceiling and a relatively high skill floor. There is no way to just rush into the enemy team and kill a bunch of dudes with impunity. At least not if those players know what they are doing. You have to figure a lot of stuff out in order to perform well and every ship has different demands. If a new player just buys his way to t4, he will have a lot of HP, but he/she will react suboptimally. I am not the tier-systems biggest fan in its current state, but I find it possible to kill or at least survive a t4 ship with my t3s. As Odin said, a ship customised to fit your personal playstyle is worth more than a ship with slightly better stats. Plus you have far more expierience (which should hopefully translate to skill) than a rank 1 captain in a bought ship.

To be clear: I see at least some truth in some of your points, Quayjay. But I expect (hope) none of them to be unfixable or a complete gamebreaker at this point in developement.

Well, just my two cents...

Sounds like you would have the best time if you just pimped out your Otranto. I found that customising your ship according to your playstyle increases your overall performance the most (more than a tier upgrade imo). If you want DPS, well... there is more than one kind of DPS. Do you want to kill from a safe distance? Do you want to actively push? Do you want to get in close and personal? Do you want to tank while dishing out? I tried a few ships before and after the patch, so maybe I can make a suggestion. But if you just want to blow up a dude at full health in a couple of seconds, I think this game works different than your expectations. Time to kill mostly goes up through the tiers (at least that is my impression up to t3,5 and it could also be a skill-related thing).

Vettes are essentially what fantasy RPGs would replace with rogue or assassin classes. Good at murdering isolated targets but weak in a real fight. Often you can mess up their entire approach by just laying down enough suppressing fire on their attack path. A weakened vette getting into an enemy formation is almost garanteed to lose. That way it's at least an assist for you and 4 points for your team. In the worst case he just cancels his attack and maybe get's away but you have successfully defended your team. At the end of the day, that's almost as valuable as a clean kill in a team game.

That aside, there are valuable modules against vettes for every class: Autoguns, Armor Amps, Scrambler Pulse (my favorite), Flak Cannons, all kinds of stasis effects.

Also, if you yourself have a corvette, try to take the role of close fighter support. Most vettes try the lone-wolf-assassin-thing and with a bit of awareness and timing you can intercept them. Got me a lot of vette-on-vette kills.

Cereph#0784 posted (#post-79710)

Nah... with a proper support artillary will die instantly... ok, an open space with some rocks around. Personaly, I would see a spawn instance before mission as a map. The view of the planet downwards is awesome!

God that would be cool. Fighting in lower orbit amongst a network of defense platforms or something like that.

I'm happy to hear that, NWood!

That is in fact quite amusing.

Should not take too long to fix though. Would have surprised me, had that complete overhaul not had its bugs on day one.