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DN_Tytyes#8983 posted (#post-213969) said:


It's more a matter of how "shared" a feedback is. Especially if you browse the forum you can see that, except in the official Feedback post bound to a specific patch, we don't get some much feedbacks.



Is it just me, or you make it sound as if it is our fault, as players? I mean, are you kidding me? You make it sound as if it's the player, who should be interested in leaving feedback in the first place and not the developer collecting it.


YOU NEED TO COLLECT THE FEEDBACK, NOT US, DUDE.


And right now there's not too much tools to leave feedback, aside from forums. And forums - well, the rule #1 of each and every forum, is that every constructive discussion at some point will descend into the abyss of subjectivity and end up with sh1tposting.


Also, second important point is "how shared the feedback is".
I mean, how the f%ck do you know how shared it really is? Based on your good judgement or what? Based on crythreads such as this one? Or whines of SOS (and alike) elitist scum in discord?
I'm referring to the nerf of Stasis Pulse on dreadnoughts, for example. Was it the tears of Warthain or Duffman, who couldn't effectively pwn newbs in their corvettes, if dred with stasis was on the other team?
Whose tears it was, when you nerfed Bomb Cata belly-stealth-attack? Literally noone but 3 or 5 people in the game used this tactic. And it wasn't even super-effective, tbh, just merely fun.



TLDR:
If you want valuable feedback - create polls monthly. Introduce them during your official streams, for example, and reward the participation with GPs or cosmetics, for example.
Then you'll probably get some resemblance of objectivity and will understand how "shared" the feedback is.

OP, do you even realize what real space combat could possibly look like? I'm pretty sure you don't, but I can give you a few hints:


1) About design - there wouldn't be such thing as design. At all. Ships would take some of the simplest forms, like cyllinder or sphere.


2) Size - is the relative term. DN ships have the average size of 200-300 meters (destroyers and dreadnoughts) and 50-60 meters for corvette. Is it too big? It depends on the distance to the target.


3) The distance - is the fundametal thing. DN has operating distances up to 12 km. For real space combat this is pretty much point-blank. Even modern weaponry allows to reliably hit targets smaller than 10x10 meters at distances up to 10000 km.
Although, it's would be pretty safe thing to do, if we increased those distance to 1 million kms.


4) Now, weaponry - the main criteria - it should be very precise and hit reliably. Is LAZOR precise at 1 million km? Well, more or less. Is it deadly at such range? Not very, as it relatively easy to protect against.
But you ask, how about TRUE sci-fi weapons, something like railguns and gauss guns, huh? Well, again, if you want to reliably hit targets at such distances, you need your projectiles to move at relativistic speeds. Anything less than 0.5c would be too easy to dodge. But noone cancelled laws of physics, and Newton's 3d law, right? If you shoot something with SUCH force (and 1 kg slug shot at 0.5s would require ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC amount of force to accelerate) - this something recoils with EXACTLY the same force. In other words - you either need a HUUUUUGE guns to fire that, or you risk destroying your ship after the 1st shot.
Which leaves us only ONE option - good old guided ROCKETS (with nuclear warheads, or what not). Let's assume sci-fi rockets move faster than modern day ones, let's say 1000 km/s. So, for 1 million km fly-time would be around 17 minutes. Cool, right?


Now think about it: how big do you think something of the size of 300m appears from 10000 km? from 1 million km? It's a dot. At best. At worst (and this is most possible scenario) you won't be able to see it at all. This won't be a game of "shoot things". This would be a game of "who spotted whom first". Gameplay would be basically "stare at the radar for 1 hour straight, then press 1 button, then wait for 17-20 minutes, match over, you won". Terrific gaming experience.


Do you really want realism, OP? That's what realism approximately looks like. Do you think it would be a good game? I don't.


Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-179412) said:
Don't get me wrong, I can use Vigo and pretty efficient with it as well, but it doesn't have an identity to me. It's more like a nerfed version of Vindicta.



I'm not actually playing Vigo, only had it opened for OB, but doesn't Vigo has the best guns of all destroyers?


Why not try to capitalize on that?


Something like Weaponbooster Pulse + Weapon Amp for perimeter and internal could have worked really well in synergy with those.
And probably some team-oriented secondary module, like Weaponbooster Missile for squad play (to buff those Onagers and get them do 40+k dmg per salvo) and/or Weaponbreaker Missile for solo play (for healer debuff).
It's sad, however, that there are no really interesting (mechanic-wise) primary mods for destroyers, aside from the glorious Ram. Only those boring rockets and torpedoes. But you could go with some generic long-range one, like Tempest (which they promised will be good in the upcoming patch)
And for OBs something like Desperate Measures, Destruction Cascade (or 101), Nerves of Steel and Get My Good Side (or 101 again, why not).


At least that's what I would try myself, if I was a huge fan of Vigo and was looking a nieche for it.


DN_MiguelItUp#0468 posted (#post-179565) said:


As, you know, sometimes a Light may be better than a Medium, or Heavy. Well, and vice versa. That IS of course if you're into Artillery Cruisers THAT much.



I agree, that heavy and medium arties are comparable, and sometimes one is better than the other.
But not the light arty.


Muromez, for example, for when you need to engage into arti duels a lot. And it's better in general, if you are pressured, as it's togher and much harder to hit, than the Onager.


Onager on the other hand, is the king in terms of sheer killing power, but is VERY vulnerable. Omly pick it if they can't get you.


Nox - I wouldn't call it artillery cruiser at all. It's pretty much a hybrid of super-light destroyer and a long range medium corvette with arty modules.
It has drastically different playstyle, than other two. And if "you're into Artillery Cruisers THAT much" I wouldn't recommend it at all.


Though, autofire and increased precision on main guns would be really helpfull, I agree.


Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-179154) said:



Aersdri#5059 posted (#post-178491) said:


What shield has to do with that? I have drain torp for that and disruptor for stuff like armor amps.
You don't need SI to test the KWA module though. I used to run it with Destruction Cascade, which is Stribog's native OB.
Also, "50% hp" requirement is only for GODMODE. If it doesn't trigger - ok, well, you still benefit from 30% KWA passive damage increase and even more - from CD reduction. If it does - well, they are f#cked.



Gotta say it's a strong build, however, I don't think that's a corvette issue, more like a foresight on OB combination. You can achieve similar result with arty fast reload module (never remember it name) and Survival Instinct while being safe from further away.


Now if the 2k autobeam arty patch goes through, I'd say that corvette need that one shot capability



Can not disagre about arties. Murometz eith T3 Rspid Fire Mode and this thing actually turns into a murder auto-cannon.


How it's gonna be in new patch - I'm really curious to know. But it's for sure, that balance will shift and vettes will be nerfed indirectly with that autobeam change.


Even the problem, which I described (crosshair lag) won't be that annoying, since you can get stasis autobeams.


However, it might appear to be just TOO STRONG. And then arties will dominate the meta. Which sucks just as badly, as anything, that "dominates something".


Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-178488) said:
That is interesting I must admit, because I haven't got Survival Instinct myself so I can't test. However, my point still stand, you need to engage people with 50% or less HP without escape mechanism for it to work, while people must NOT raise shield



What shield has to do with that? I have drain torp for that and disruptor for stuff like armor amps.
You don't need SI to test the KWA module though. I used to run it with Destruction Cascade, which is Stribog's native OB.
Also, "50% hp" requirement is only for GODMODE. If it doesn't trigger - ok, well, you still benefit from 30% KWA passive damage increase and even more - from CD reduction. If it does - well, they are f#cked.
The build is pretty costly to your reaction times, but actually VERY FUN to play and is (however, classical KAA build for Stribog is, probably, more effective in most situations).



FooJub#4039 posted (#post-178485) said:


So? Youdiedintheprocess, killing a light unshielded npc dread. Eh.



You do realize I made this video in like 10 mins entirely to prove the point, that corvette CAN ONESHOT dreadnought?
And whether you live or die in the process depends on how you approach to the mentioned process. If I rush head-on, then just SIT THERE IN ONE PLACE AND LITERALLY WAIT UNTILL MY HULL IS AT HALF-HP - then yes, there's a decent chance of me dying in the process.


Yes, it's much harder to survive with this module, but it's kinda worth it. Also, sometimes to die after killing their heal-ball - is not the worst thing to do, since your Desperate Measure work only once per life and after using all CDs you gonna be a sitting duck for at least a minute.


If your intention is to NEVER die in a match, rather than be usefull for your team - sure, I would rather not recommend it.


EDIT

As for "gun-crosshair" lag? What do you want? Turrets that swivel on a dime that have no need for leading? You pretty much just described tac cruisers, so if you have such an issue with vettes get in a tac. Problem solved.



I just noticed that. Dude, you are rather special one, aren't you?
What you mean is "projectile travel time lag". Artillery has 1s delay lag at 7km. I'm not complaining about that. I don't want artillery shooting lazors.
I'll rephraze: when you turn your crosshairs sideways and shoot at the same time, projectile shoots and different direction, compared to one, at which your crosshair was poinitng the moment that projectile was shooted.


I'm not sure if it happens because of my net lag (150 ms), or because of some bug with aim assist. It is a thing and it is annoying.


Aersdri#5059 posted (#post-178463) said:
I would suggest you read Datamine Spreadsheet and module description in game and do the math yourself (not an idiom, you'll have to do actual math) but at this point I'm not sure. Therefore,


==EDIT==
Check the video in the post below.



Here's the video with an ACTUAL ONESHOT, which Stribog is capable of. Game recorded in a match vs AI, for demonstration purposes only.


--LINK--


Does it happen often? Not really, but it does sometimes. And how it usually happens - that you can see in the second part of the video.
Is this OP? I don't know, you tell me.


Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-178462) said:


I go the idea you wanted help because you where saying weapon amp is OP. I personally disagree as the corvettes approach speed is reduced. Yes if they sneak up on you, you have had it. But that can be said for a destroyer with a plasma ram.



That what I said in my 1st post in this thread:



And I can tell for sure, that certain vette builds can eat dreds in seconds. Even Jutland. Stribog with Kinetic Weapon Amp LITERALLY one-shots anything less than 25k hp. With main cannons. Armor amp and energy doesnt save you, as vette has disruptor pulse nd drain torp. Jutland usually dies in 5-6 seconds in that scenario.



Which was a reply, that "vette can not kill dreadnought fast". Yes, they can. I didn't say a word about whether I think KWA is OP or not (no, I don't think it is, because, as you mentioned, one loses mobility). And you immediately jumped in with you generic "did you try turning it ON/OFF". I mean, that's a part of the job, I get it now - so I may be overreacted a bit.


What IS OP, on the other hand, is that gun-crosshair LAG.
That is OP as f%ck.


Captain Nemo#8277 posted (#post-178439) said:


Because Valcour has highest DPS no matter what? Stribog with with KAA and at 50% HP deals 7k damage per shot, 14k double shot, with 1 reload it deals 28k damage, only equivalent to a Valcour without KAA. And I have not seen any vette actively engage people with 50% HP and 0 escape mechanism. Though I play Stribog with KAA myself.



I'm really not sure why you keep referring to Kinetic Weapon Amplifier (KWA) as KAA (where "A" stands for "Armour"). Dude, again KINETIC WEAPON AMPLIFIER, not KINETIC ARMOR AMPLIFIER
And again, for the most special people. WEAPON not ARMOR!!!


About Stribog vs Valcour UNBUFFED - Yes, I know, we both saw description in game - Stribog 2500 dps, Valcour 3600 dps. I'm not arguing against that. Valcour does more DPS, considering shooting ONLY main gun unbuffed, no energy.


But "no matter what" - NO, that's not how it works.


1) On top of the linear damage buff (which gives identical boost for both ships), T4 Kietic Weapon Amplifier reduces reload time by 50%, making it 1.25s for Stribog, and 1.5s for Valcour. But, Valcour takes 3.4s to unload its full clip. Stribog - only 0.35s. So in the end - after 50% cd reduction (with 100% hp) Stribog does 9000 dps, and Valcour - only 5450 dps.


2) Survival Instinct OB works exactly the same. -50% CD on gun reload. Same 9000 vs 5450 dps.


3) Now, interesting stuff. I'm not sure if you know, but alot of more experienced vette players switch to secondary guns, while main is on cooldown. Assuming you switch to T4 Plasma Turrets and do 3-4 shots, while main cannon is on cd. In case of 3 shots: Stribog does 7050 dps, Valcour - 5061 dps. In case of 4 shots: Stribog does 7716 dps, Valcour - 5357 dps.


Yes, 1 and 2 requires you to have specific modules and/or briefings, so that's situational. But 3 - everyone with more than a week on corvette does that.
So, all in all, Stribog does MORE dps in virtually any REAL situation, but you have to know the game just a little bit.
Well, in fact it's not just more - it's MOST, actually, being #1 non-module dps ship in the game. I think if more people knew about this (you didn't, for example, and you aren't a newb) - we would see more Stribog players out there.



I would suggest you read Datamine Spreadsheet and module description in game and do the math yourself (not an idiom, you'll have to do actual math) but at this point I'm not sure. Therefore,


==EDIT==
Check the video in the post below.


Brother Belial#4215 posted (#post-178457) said:



If the gunns are acting "funny" then maybe you have auto aim on, also if you have been playing the game for awhile, then you should know about projectile speed. I get your frustrated, but come on. Also, the vid you shown, that projectile speed, as I mentioned. That or bag ping. one or the other. I can say ive not noticed that on a light art before.



As for my sig, yeah I'm here to help people who want to be helped. I can't help you if you wnat to get all angry, and act like one corvette set up is king, and anything anyone else says is wrong. Thats on you.



First, arties do ignore aim assist, if I'm not mistaken. And turning aim asist OFF/ON doesn't make any difference anyways, tried multiple times. About ping - I'm not sure, I have around 150-160 ms stable, it's unlikely that delay THAT high, as it appears on the video, might happen because of ping. Requires testing though.


Second, I don't know where did you get the idea, that I want to be helped. And, which is more important to the discussion topic - WHY do you think I "act like one corvette set up is king, and anything anyone else says is wrong". Because I do not.
And, what's funny, YOU (and a lot of other people) were acting EXACT OPPOSITE - like "corvette is PURFECTLY BALANCED, and anything anyone else says is wrong".
Don't you think this is kind of hypocritic?


All I'm saying, again, that corvette is very hard to hit because of the problem, that I described above (video) (be it net lag, bug or feature - I don't know, but it exists).