It's either bugged or they SEVERELY nerfed the drop rate... had vids with drops active running pretty much 24/7 and I havent gotten one in 3 days; lot of other people in twitch chats saying the same thing, no drops in 3 days.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-95475)

... Not some mumbo jumbo rerolls to a prehistoric alpha state...

Patch 1.3.1, aka "Progression 2.0" was released Oct 31 2016; rolling back a measly 2 1/2 months to 1.3.0 is hardly prehistoric; which was a Beta version of the game, not an Alpha.... get your facts straight before making your inane white knight arguments.

Silver#9012 posted (#post-95348)

Dearest Developers,

You catch a lot of flak, you really do. Every time I turn to the forums for some community immersion I see nothing but hate, complaints, insults, and threats to quit...

They catch a lot of flak because they deserve a lot of flak, good game developers do NOT ignore overwhelming feedback from their alpha & beta testers, good game developers do NOT say they're going to make changes based on player complaints and then put in changes that increase the very problem the players were complaining about, good game developers do NOT refuse to acknowledge when they've made a mistake, good game developers do NOT push a game towards open beta despite it in no way being ready for public release.

The devs will get praise and pats on the head when they start behaving like good game developers again; until then they've earned every bit of flak and scorn they get.

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-88874)

The devs have confirmed they don't WANT to go back

Odin#5262 posted (#post-88906)

Boom,there is your answer,you saying it yourself.

The Devs are wrong, period.

You should realise by now,that this progression update we have now isnt a work of few hours,it is work of months while we were playing the old build.It was announced months before we actually went to 2.0 ...

And the devs were deluged with complaints and pleas NOT to actually implement the system they announced, they stuck their fingers in their ears and chose not to listen, which is why we, and the current sorry@ss state of the game are here now.

It's far better to throw out months of bad work and release a game that works the way the playerbase enjoys and is willing to pay for a little bit late, then it is to ignore all feedback, caution, logic, common sense, and basic good game design principals, pressing ahead to release a game that few people will like and even fewer will be willing to pay for on schedule.

GIGO, put garbage code and design ideas into a game, you're going to get garbage results out of it.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-70069)

Have you considered that they are probably on somekind of NDA?We always had hints of what they were on too.

Alex_Rowe,manufacturers tree,tier progression system and the maintence,all that were announced way before the actual patch hit us(like 5-6 months maybe?).

Well I would assume the mods and CMs like MiguelItUp are under an NDA, or at least instructed not to talk about things that haven't been announced, I wasn't directing my criticism at him personally, but relaying criticism and other commentary from the community to the people who can tell us such things is part of his job; I was speaking about/to the dev team in general.

And yes they told us, in generality about what 2.0 involved ahead of time for once, but,

1) They told us about it after it had been more or less written in stone, it was informing us of a major change, not asking us for our opinions on a proposed major change, which is what they should have done.


2) The feedback on 2.0 was quick and overwhelmingly negative, yet they implemented it anyway.

Which means that either they didn't actually bother to read the responses to the 2.0 announcement, or they flat out just didn't care what their testers think; either is completely unacceptable behavior from competent mmo developers.

DN_MiguelItUp#0468 posted (#post-68825)

... We have big plans across the board for the future and we look forward to bringing them to light.

How about cluing us lowly serfs in on these "big plans"?

Lack of communication between the devs and the testers has been one of this game's biggest problems; if progression 2.0 had been explained, in detail, before it was actually coded in, we could have told you guys what a godawful horrid idea it was before you had put much actual development time into something that you're just going to have to remove anyway because it's killed the fun of, and therefore the profit potential of, your game.

Run plans past your testers before you start coding them into the game! So we can tell you which ones are good ideas, and which ones are bad ideas you need to rethink.

You guys may be making the game, but us testers represent the people who will (or as of 2.0 would have) be playing and paying for your game; if you want this game to be a true success, you need to include us in the process.

Nataku#3670 posted (#post-67765)

Saying that the people on this forum represent the entire DN beta playerbase is a bit presumptuous. Even on discord would not be a accurate way to gauge it. Point is most people that are upset, frustrated will flock to a forum or any others form of communication they can use to reach developers.

If they aren't posting feedback here on the forum they're not doing their job as a beta tester. The entire point of a closed beta is for the testers to tell the devs what works and what doesn't, what they like and what they don't.

And virtually all the ones that are communicating at the very least strongly dislike most if not all of progression 2.0, so no one is being presumptuous about that.

I too have given up for now, I simply cannot sit in a queue for +10 minutes only to see the same people and trying to progress in the current iteration of the progression tree which takes waaaay to long with these wait times. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the matches and the game when I am in a match. But I think I and maybe others aswell have been a bit spoiled. We have been to the endgame of DN we have seen most modules and know what works well and is fun to play. So having that huge grind wall put up plus the horrific wait times puts me off, some have managed to get pretty far already but I honestly don't have the patience.

The reason why the queues are so long and why you end up playing with the same people is because most of the testers have quit, which is a very bad sign, and a freaking huge flashing neon sign to the devs that the track they're currently on is very very wrong.

And it was never stated that we were playing the 'end game' in Alpha & 1.1, we were playing the game, period. This grind tree garbage is something new they decided to add and has changed the nature of the game completely; 2.0 is not the game Dreadnought was previously advertised that it was going to be.

However let it be said that even before progression 2.0 was here. People were already complaining about other matters some of them being alpha testers. Some of them have already left because these issues were not addressed for whatever reason. But the amount of complaints back then were noting compared about the amount of people that are now trying to let their voice be heard.

Of course people were complaining, the game is a beta, it has bugs, imbalances, bad design decisions... alpha & beta testers are supposed to complain about such things. And the amount of complaints has shot through the roof with progression 2.0 because as I said, it completely changes the nature of the game and took a quite fun game that just needed a little balancing, a bit of touching up in some places, and more content added to be ready to launch; and instead has essentially dumped it back to early Alpha status.

Muyadude#4676 posted (#post-66902)

... We should remain civil. Odin has his extreme view and does not want to budge from it. There are also who aligned with his views too.

You and me and others too are opposite to Odin. I have also fed back that this grind is not how I imagined to playing game and hate the GP to convert currency mechanics and the crappy maintenance system.

I do feel that the lack of matches springing up does speak volumes which views is held in the majority

Heh that was me being civil to him, what I'd really like to say to him would be much more rude. White-knights who bury their heads in the sand and constantly defend the indefensible are poison to a game's development because they give the devs who made whatever stupid decision in question (in this case progression 2.0) an argument to themselves and the other developers that it's not really so bad, and "some players like it, so the rest will get used to it eventually"... I've worked with mmo devs before, trust me they'll take any excuse they can find not to change their pet ideas, people like Odin just give them ammunition.

The best, and only real, hope for this entire thing to get scrapped and reverted or replaced with something else completely different is if the testers stand united against the devs and hammer into them just how absurdly horrible an idea progression 2.0 is.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-66299)

...Really?A slave didnt had a choise,you do.

Which is the entire point... we choose not to play this grindfest trash any more... and having (much) fewer players is ... NEWSFLASH... BAD for the game.

Get it through your thick white-knight skull... just because you happen to not hate progression 2.0, does not mean that the hundreds of other testers that have stated that they do hate it are wrong.

Anything that drives large numbers of players away, such as the new progression system garbage, is bad for the survival of the game, period, end of story.

Odin#5262 posted (#post-60546)

... How will you(please express your opinion) foorce people to stay on a f2p model game such as Dreadnought without tiers and grind?

Did you seriously just say that??

Xave#3421 posted (#post-60555)

... "How will you force people to stay on a f2p". That's ultimately the failed logic behind this type of WoT progression system. You really shouldn't be trying to force your player base to stay through grinding, you should be incentivising it with fun gameplay and cosmetic customization purchases like most F2P games do...

Exactly, CONTENT keeps people playing, grind drives them away.

Kampfkraft#8374 posted (#post-61318)

The problem is uninstalling won't bring back your real-world money.

Heh for once being poor paid off... I didn't have the extra money to spend on a founders pack, so glad I didn't, the BS greybox is pulling here doesn't deserve to be rewarded in any way.

Hootorez#4891 posted (#post-61394)

At the moment, in all respects the stage of a game is more similar on an alpha the test than for the closed beta. The quantity of defects simply reads off scale, beginning from the interface, a tree of development of technologies and finishing matchmaker...

Actually the Alpha played better and was much more fun then Beta 2.0.

obliviondoll#5677 posted (#post-61402)

I first played while the game was nearing the end of its alpha stages. It felt more complete and release-ready than it feels with 2.0

Agreed, one step forward, 10 steps back... yay progress!

Lincrono#9039 posted (#post-63378)

... Have the devs acknowledged Progression 2.0's failure yet and said anything about making changes?

Been here since Alpha and one thing that hasn't changed is the people in charge around here never seem to acknowledge their mistakes or announce changes in any detail until they're already written in stone, so what we think/say about them doesn't matter at that point.

Course that's not uncommon behavior from most any mmo sadly.

Lincrono#9039 posted (#post-63388)

Cool, I can write this game out of my attention for a few months then smile No use watching to see if the corpse will start walking again!

SolaceAvatar#6430 posted (#post-63562)

Yeah, as much as I used to love this game, I'm slowly losing all hope that this will ever get fixed. Pretty bitter that something I loved got torn away from me, but I guess I'll have the memories, and I'm sure someone will do it right eventually.

Heh yeah... I've been through this garbage with more then a few games but this one really ticks (not the word I originally typed, stupid filter) me off... DN had such awesome potential... sad.

Personally I don't think I can hope someone will do it right any more, been a PC gamer for um.. 27 years (man I feel old now), and an MMO player for 17, but for at least like the last decade the entire industry just seems to get worse every year.

xerolegacy#8101 posted (#post-63563)

From what I can assume, sixfoot are more to do with marketing/monetisation aspects of its products which might explain some of the game design choices we have in shipyard, and also as I quote from there website. "Our teams can manage every aspect of bringing dynamic and visually stunning games to market, including creative direction, marketing and brand management, front and back-end development ".

Its safe to say things like tiers and maintenance are here to stay because of pressure from investors and publishers, as well as budget and time constraints...

Which is exactly why businessmen shouldn't run game companies, they have no idea how to make a proper game.

Used to be a GM on an mmo way back when and the Devs there did what Devs everywhere should... treat managers like mushrooms; feed them BS and keep them in the dark.