I figured as long as the forum isn't super busy yet and the game is in development, I should get this mildly uncomfortable discussion out of the way. But don't worry, it'll be fine. :)

So I used to play this other sci-fi space MMO that shall not be named. It was developed by a studio, which in turn was owned by a larger parent company that runs several MMOs - pretty standard. I played it from early 2012 to the end of last year, as F2P, but I did make some "micro"transaction purchases (just for full disclosure). Now this game, as I understand, is doing incredibly well financially, but in my opinion is doing terribly in quality. I left because over the years they (probably the parent company) focused on maximizing profit at the expense of making a quality game.

Bugs went (and still go) unfixed for years; lack of testing allows bug-riddled and game breaking stuff onto the main server; new things to buy get pumped out despite these problems; power creep runs rampant because a new shiny has to be more OP to sell; nearly everything is time-gated grind (including anniversary celebrations); no development is allotted to user generated content, PvP, or anything that doesn't make a quick buck; communication is almost exclusively PR work; and the lead dev doesn't help the problems by being so out of touch that I question whether he develops the same game we play.

So where does this tie into Dreadnought? Well, I point out all these issues because they are a product of years of neglect, short-sighted designs, bad design, and overmonetization. However, the game started exactly where Dreadnought is now: a great looking, promising MMO still in development with open communication and transparency. But over time, the game lost its transparency, it lost its focus on profit and quality, it lost its communication, and it lost its attention to player input.

That could happen with Dreadnought. I don't want that to happen. None of us do, of course! So I'm saying this now to show what can happen if we, us the community and you the developers, get out of touch. I don't mean any of this in a bad way. You guys are doing a great job so far and I want it to continue, so here are a few key points to make sure that Dreadnought remains a great and respectable game:

1. No matter what, keep the line of communication open. I might not like a decision, but if we can talk it out then I will come to respect the decision. The only thing that p!sses me off more than a terrible change is being silent about it. The most powerful tool we have as humans is communication! I also want to make sure that you'll be aware of my satisfaction, because I will always give credit where it's due. :)

2. Help us help you. The PvP community - yes the entire community - in the aforementioned MMO was wiped out by neglect. On many occasions, I and plenty of others offered to do the work in, for example, determining how to rebalance gear for PvP or creating better systems to sort UGC quests. Silence. Nothing. We really do want to help you guys out the best I can to make the game better! We just need to know that you guys are there with us.

3. Integrity, integrity, integrity. Naturally, the only thing that p!sses me off more than being silent is lying to my face. The most tragic part of my little rant-story is that on so many occasions, the studio (I won't say anyone in particular) flat out lied. They lied about bugs "always working as intended," only to backtrack on that later. They lied about how stuff would affect the game. They said what they'd never do only to do it. I can only urge you, be honest!

If you guys keep being honest, open, and helpful, Dreadnought will keep being great. I'd hate to see great potential wasted, and that's why I say this. Dev guys, you're doing awesome. Don't stop doing awesome.

only time will tell how they behave during beta tests and after release. i've been burnt by firefall over multiple years over and over again, so i can totally understand where you are coming from. pretty valid points, the only problem is, that sometimes they are not allowed to be transparent about certain topics. just like they are not allowed to tell us anything specific as of yet too. but i get what you mean. still we won't ever be able to have them be unveil every single detail about certain things. that's just how the industry works.
please don't take this as critizism, i just want you to keep a realistic view on things.
not the belittle devs lying and ignoring their communites, which i have seen more than you would think, sadly.....

jownsy#3157 posted (#post-3888)

only time will tell how they behave during beta tests and after release. i've been burnt by firefall over multiple years over and over again, so i can totally understand where you are coming from. pretty valid points, the only problem is, that sometimes they are not allowed to be transparent about certain topics. just like they are not allowed to tell us anything specific as of yet too. but i get what you mean. still we won't ever be able to have them be unveil every single detail about certain things. that's just how the industry works.
please don't take this as critizism, i just want you to keep a realistic view on things.
not the belittle devs lying and ignoring their communites, which i have seen more than you would think, sadly.....

I get what you mean. I know the devs can't tell us everything, but it's good to have an idea of what direction they want to take the game (when they're allowed to say) so the community can give appropriate feedback. Like right now, we know their overall goal is to get the game polished for launch. Once launched, that goal will of course change.

I also come from the MMO of which he speaks. And it has gotten exponentially worse since he left, and not just for PvP. The power creep has gotten so bad that queued missions that were meant to take 5 players several minutes are done by one person rushing forward, pressing one button a few times, and completing the mission all in under a minute.

all we can do is speculate,we still havent played the beta yet,we cant predict what will happen,just cause there is nothing else around like dreadnought,only time will tell(fingers crossed)..

Spork#2479 posted (#post-3876)

I figured as long as the forum isn't super busy yet and the game is in development, I should get this mildly uncomfortable discussion out of the way. But don't worry, it'll be fine. :)

So I used to play this other sci-fi space MMO that shall not be named. It was developed by a studio, which in turn was owned by a larger parent company that runs several MMOs - pretty standard. I played it from early 2012 to the end of last year, as F2P, but I did make some "micro"transaction purchases (just for full disclosure). Now this game, as I understand, is doing incredibly well financially, but in my opinion is doing terribly in quality. I left because over the years they (probably the parent company) focused on maximizing profit at the expense of making a quality game.

Bugs went (and still go) unfixed for years; lack of testing allows bug-riddled and game breaking stuff onto the main server; new things to buy get pumped out despite these problems; power creep runs rampant because a new shiny has to be more OP to sell; nearly everything is time-gated grind (including anniversary celebrations); no development is allotted to user generated content, PvP, or anything that doesn't make a quick buck; communication is almost exclusively PR work; and the lead dev doesn't help the problems by being so out of touch that I question whether he develops the same game we play.

So where does this tie into Dreadnought? Well, I point out all these issues because they are a product of years of neglect, short-sighted designs, bad design, and overmonetization. However, the game started exactly where Dreadnought is now: a great looking, promising MMO still in development with open communication and transparency. But over time, the game lost its transparency, it lost its focus on profit and quality, it lost its communication, and it lost its attention to player input.

That could happen with Dreadnought. I don't want that to happen. None of us do, of course! So I'm saying this now to show what can happen if we, us the community and you the developers, get out of touch. I don't mean any of this in a bad way. You guys are doing a great job so far and I want it to continue, so here are a few key points to make sure that Dreadnought remains a great and respectable game:

1. No matter what, keep the line of communication open. I might not like a decision, but if we can talk it out then I will come to respect the decision. The only thing that p!sses me off more than a terrible change is being silent about it. The most powerful tool we have as humans is communication! I also want to make sure that you'll be aware of my satisfaction, because I will always give credit where it's due. :)

2. Help us help you. The PvP community - yes the entire community - in the aforementioned MMO was wiped out by neglect. On many occasions, I and plenty of others offered to do the work in, for example, determining how to rebalance gear for PvP or creating better systems to sort UGC quests. Silence. Nothing. We really do want to help you guys out the best I can to make the game better! We just need to know that you guys are there with us.

3. Integrity, integrity, integrity. Naturally, the only thing that p!sses me off more than being silent is lying to my face. The most tragic part of my little rant-story is that on so many occasions, the studio (I won't say anyone in particular) flat out lied. They lied about bugs "always working as intended," only to backtrack on that later. They lied about how stuff would affect the game. They said what they'd never do only to do it. I can only urge you, be honest!

If you guys keep being honest, open, and helpful, Dreadnought will keep being great. I'd hate to see great potential wasted, and that's why I say this. Dev guys, you're doing awesome. Don't stop doing awesome.

I agree with the fact that we need to communicate I would rather a dev telling us why they did/ are doing something then or it just to happen and honestly I have so much more respect for a dev team that takes the communities comment into account

Spork#2479 posted (#post-3876)

I figured as long as the forum isn't super busy yet and the game is in development, I should get this mildly uncomfortable discussion out of the way. But don't worry, it'll be fine. :)

So I used to play this other sci-fi space MMO that shall not be named. It was developed by a studio, which in turn was owned by a larger parent company that runs several MMOs - pretty standard. I played it from early 2012 to the end of last year, as F2P, but I did make some "micro"transaction purchases (just for full disclosure). Now this game, as I understand, is doing incredibly well financially, but in my opinion is doing terribly in quality. I left because over the years they (probably the parent company) focused on maximizing profit at the expense of making a quality game.

Bugs went (and still go) unfixed for years; lack of testing allows bug-riddled and game breaking stuff onto the main server; new things to buy get pumped out despite these problems; power creep runs rampant because a new shiny has to be more OP to sell; nearly everything is time-gated grind (including anniversary celebrations); no development is allotted to user generated content, PvP, or anything that doesn't make a quick buck; communication is almost exclusively PR work; and the lead dev doesn't help the problems by being so out of touch that I question whether he develops the same game we play.

So where does this tie into Dreadnought? Well, I point out all these issues because they are a product of years of neglect, short-sighted designs, bad design, and overmonetization. However, the game started exactly where Dreadnought is now: a great looking, promising MMO still in development with open communication and transparency. But over time, the game lost its transparency, it lost its focus on profit and quality, it lost its communication, and it lost its attention to player input.

That could happen with Dreadnought. I don't want that to happen. None of us do, of course! So I'm saying this now to show what can happen if we, us the community and you the developers, get out of touch. I don't mean any of this in a bad way. You guys are doing a great job so far and I want it to continue, so here are a few key points to make sure that Dreadnought remains a great and respectable game:

1. No matter what, keep the line of communication open. I might not like a decision, but if we can talk it out then I will come to respect the decision. The only thing that p!sses me off more than a terrible change is being silent about it. The most powerful tool we have as humans is communication! I also want to make sure that you'll be aware of my satisfaction, because I will always give credit where it's due. :)

2. Help us help you. The PvP community - yes the entire community - in the aforementioned MMO was wiped out by neglect. On many occasions, I and plenty of others offered to do the work in, for example, determining how to rebalance gear for PvP or creating better systems to sort UGC quests. Silence. Nothing. We really do want to help you guys out the best I can to make the game better! We just need to know that you guys are there with us.

3. Integrity, integrity, integrity. Naturally, the only thing that p!sses me off more than being silent is lying to my face. The most tragic part of my little rant-story is that on so many occasions, the studio (I won't say anyone in particular) flat out lied. They lied about bugs "always working as intended," only to backtrack on that later. They lied about how stuff would affect the game. They said what they'd never do only to do it. I can only urge you, be honest!

If you guys keep being honest, open, and helpful, Dreadnought will keep being great. I'd hate to see great potential wasted, and that's why I say this. Dev guys, you're doing awesome. Don't stop doing awesome.

The game you played before is still fun if you got the right channels and fleet (if we are talking about the same bugged filled mmo)

It's still a good game, but it requires grinding and knowledge to keep going as well as tolerance for the other issues they have and so far I haven't put much into the game expect maybe for one ship that I needed or toon slots.

Then again once this game is released I will probably drop that game for this one if it turns out well.