Official News

Join us on Discord as we play the game and talk all things ‪‎Grey Goo‬.

PTB 1 Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:08 PM UTC 
Last updated
Mar 18, 2015 at 05:27 PM UTC

Hey Grey Gooers,

It’s crazy to think that it has already been five weeks since Grey Goo was released on Steam. Since then, balance has been a hotly debated topic for the community and the design department felt it was necessary to update you guys and gals on what we think about the current state of things. We largely feel that the balance of Grey Goo is successful for the initial release of a brand new IP. However, we are keenly aware of specific instances where gameplay is situationally providing advantages for one faction over the others.

We’ve read through volumes of your feedback, played extensively on the matchmaking ladder ourselves and have been keeping a running list of priority items that have been brought to our attention. To make this information easier to parse, we’ve broken down the major balance topics into three separate posts. These posts will only cover the main balance changes and not every single change in the upcoming patch. Before we get started, please remember that Design is still playtesting and experimenting internally with all of the topics listed below, so anything is subject to change. That being said, we encourage you to reply to this thread only and give feedback on these topics. This is part of a larger list of changes going into the newly announced PTB Build!

Let’s jump in.

Table of Contents

Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense

Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat

Balance Adjustments Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat

Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense

1. “Human Sentinels are a little too easy to build in vast quantities and are quick to teleport.”

Human Sentinels are the premier static defense system in Grey Goo; they are versatile and provide awesome area denial. Unfortunately, even though they have a drain cost of 10, the player can still build an endless number of them if he/she has the Catalyst to do so. They are also quick to reposition using the structure teleport and so they can potentially have a high return on investment with the damage/utility they bring. We believe that limiting the number of Sentinels you can have at one time and increasing the amount of time it takes to relocate them will reel these back into filling more of that static role. We are experimenting with adding Sentinels to the population and increasing the time to teleport.

• Human Sentinels now have a population of 1
• Human Sentinels now take 10 seconds to teleport up from 5

2. “Human and Beta walls are difficult to counter early on into the game and affect the pace of the rest of the match. They have been used to block resource gathering and to wall enemies in. “

We are currently evaluating methods of reducing wall effectiveness and feasibility as an offensive option in the early game. Adjustments to cost, build time, health, and armor have all been tested internally with promising results. The goal here is to push the walls into the mid and late game as their drain rates will need to be supported by higher amounts of income. Therefore, it will be harder to both build walls and build units on lower numbers of Refineries. However, we do not want to push walls into a place where they are never useful as a defensive tactic in favor of building units; we would like those options to still be competitive with each other. Additionally, walls are the primary way of defending against a rush as the Beta, so any adjustments will have to be tempered by that fact.

Human

• Human wall armor down from 6 to 0
• Human wall build time up from 30 to 40
• Human wall pillar cost up from 30 to 80
• Human wall pillar health down from 1000 to 750
• Human wall straight cost up from 30 to 120
• Human wall regeneration up from 15/sec to 25/sec

Beta

• Beta wall armor down from 3 to 0
• Beta wall build time up from 25 to 30
• Beta wall pillar cost up from 50 to 120
• Beta wall pillar health down from 1250 to 1000
• Beta wall straight cost up from 50 to 90

3. “The Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade is being used in tandem with walls to abuse enemy players.”

The Guardian Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade probably provides too much damage from that range. Coupled with the effectiveness of walls, this can be difficult to deal with. We are experimenting with reducing both the range and the damage to more reasonable levels, but it will be balanced together with any wall changes.

• Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade range down from 1200 to 900
• Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade damage down from 35 to 25

4. “The Mother Goo is too effective as an offensive unit against an enemy base in the early game.”

The Mother Goo has enough armor penetration to negate the armor of all targets in the game, on par with a siege unit. Because of this, the Mother is a go-to choice for sieging the enemy base with early in the game. Reductions in armor penetration have been effective, increasing the time to kill structures with armor to minutes instead of seconds. However, the Mother Goo still needs to have the ability to defend itself against units with its consumption ability. Because of the armor system, there is no way to reduce effectiveness against structures without also reducing the effectiveness against armored units as well, so this change will be monitored. We feel like we’re heading in the right direction though, as the Large Protean should be the Goo player’s first choice for a siege unit.

• Mother Goo armor penetration down from 10 to 0

5. “Proteans are too effective at blocking factory rollout zones for Beta and Human.”

Small Proteans are the primary defense that a Goo player has against direct early game harassment and they must be able to take on a reasonably sized early rush against them. However, they are also very effective when sitting in front of factory rollout zones. We’ve been experimenting with reductions in the Large and Small Proteans’ slow mechanic to allow enemies to escape more effectively from their damage. The Mother Goo will retain her 90% slow for defense.

• Small and Large Proteans now slow enemies by 50% down from 90%

6. “The Goo faction is likely too effective at stealth detection in general.”

Both the Mother Goo and the Small Protean have innate stealth detection. The Mother Goo has great vision and the Small Protean is fast. Used together, you can cover most of the map in effective stealth detection. The combat stealth detection utility of the Small Protean is something that needs to be maintained, so reducing the Mother Goo’s stealth detection radius is the likely option.

• Mother Goo stealth detection range down from 800 to 400

We continue this discussion with Part 2: Early Game Combat.

-GG from the Dev Team


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:23 PM UTC 
Last updated
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:35 PM UTC

I love what i'm reading. I'm on board with a lot of those proposals. Really like all the wall change ideas.

Although I'm not sure pop of just 1 for say an Anti-heavy will change anything all that much. To me it's a mounted Gladius tank that can be repaired with significantly better range. I think 3 would be better, like the Gladius, but that's just me.

Thanks for all the hard work.


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:35 PM UTC 

mama goo pen 0 too little. I like the games where goos rush me. Ive won many games having no ref and no catalyst. its fun and different. dont destroy that gameplay completely


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:41 PM UTC 
Last updated
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:44 PM UTC

• Mother Goo armor penetration down from 10 to 0 so 2 fact all in going be even more op vs goo ? gg btw new maps in ranked please not to much to ask for ?


YOu can watch my stream here. learn how to play grey goo and come chill out smile
http://www.twitch.tv/bikerush


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:42 PM UTC 

why nerf goo when its already the worst army, this balance change might be horrible


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:47 PM UTC 

bikerush#4960 posted (#post-19793)

• Mother Goo armor penetration down from 10 to 0 so 2 fact all in going be even more op vs goo ? gg btw new maps in ranked please not to much to ask for ?

I'm sure they'll take care of that with something else. Right now the fact that you can win by just plopping a mother in the enemy base early on is really stupid. This is a good change.


ingame: KHOMETMIBRO


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:48 PM UTC 

Great changes so far, except I'm not sure if the change for the turrets will do anything though. Anyone feel the same?


ingame: KHOMETMIBRO


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:58 PM UTC 

Changing Mother Goo pen from 10 to 0 weakens it vs Gladius, Predators & Destructors, with their 3 armor.

And the slow is from 90% to 50%? At least then keep their pen to 3 so they do the same damage vs those units I listed above.

Goo players need their mothers to help out in battle to compete with the early unit production of Beta & Humans.


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:58 PM UTC 
Last updated
Mar 03, 2015 at 10:59 PM UTC

The intent with the turrets is to remove the ability for Humans to have infinite turrets in late game. Keep in mind that all four types of turrets have pop-cap and they share that with your army. While it doesn't really slow down early game at all, we've found that in mid-to-late game you had to make a choice between that heavily defended base (and creeping turrets on the flat maps) or actually fielding epics and other high-tier units.

That said, we can always make them more expensive pop-cap-wise if we see that turret spam is still an issue.


Patrick Pannullo
Petroglyph
Grey Goo Lead Designer


Posted
Mar 03, 2015 at 11:09 PM UTC 
Last updated
Mar 08, 2015 at 05:47 AM UTC

-


“You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.”

Reply

Register or login to create a topic or post a reply.