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PTB 1 Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat

March 4, 2015, 12:25 p.m.
Last updated
March 18, 2015, 1:27 p.m.

Hello again!

Welcome back to the on-going Balance Adjustments discussion! Today we'll be diving into topics that coincide with events that can happen early on in the game and affect the rest of the match. This is part of a larger list of changes going into the newly announced PTB Build!

Table of Contents

Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense

Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat

Balance Adjustments Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat

Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat

1. “Tridents are easy to build and are really effective for their cost.”

Tridents have the same build time as Commandos but have more health. They are very easy to build and rush with en masse and a Beta and Goo player can feel overwhelmed quite easily. We like how the Tridents currently preform in combat, therefore we are looking into increasing their build time and cost to shift them away from their current dominance. “Quantity has a quality all its own.”

•Trident build time up from 20 to 25

•Trident cost up from 100 to 125

2. "It is difficult to defend against early aggression as a Goo player."

Goo players' main defense in the early game is to relocate or stand and fight with a Small Protean. Tridents were contributing to the feeling of being overwhelmed early on, but we felt that it wasn't enough of a change to help the Goo in all matchups. We've decided to shift Mother Goo health and HPS values around to give them more defensive value when taking shots from an early game scout and, later on in the game, they will have more time to soak damage before losing a split size. This change may not go far enough so we'll keep an eye on it. Because the early game Goo rush is less of a concern now with the reduction in armor penetration, an increase in movement speed or another defensive stat may be warranted after testing.

•Mother Goo max health has increased from 1300 to 1400

•Mother Goo health per size has increased from 200 to 280

•Mother Goo catalyst disgestion health per second up from 5 to 7

•Mother Goo first size max health down from 500 to 280

•Initial Mother Goo starting health down from 400 to 210

•Catalyst Vents (Spigots) now grant 119 health per pickup to the Mother Goo up from 85

3. “Proteans can engage and then split into units before they die. This makes them feel unfair to engage against because players feel like they’re fighting 2:1.”

This is actually intended gameplay for the Goo faction. The Goo has the choice to both split their units and let them regen to full health prior to engagement, or send the Protean in to engage and then split before it dies into damaged formed units. Goo units made from a Protean are probably a bit too hard to kill at their current split health percentages, at least in tandem with their innate regeneration mechanic. Because units do full damage regardless of their current health, it is currently too difficult as a defending player to remove offensive DPS from a splitting Goo player in combat. Testing has been conducted on altering the regen mechanic.

• The formed Goo regeneration effect now only activates when units are not actively taking or dealing damage.

• Small Protean health up from 150 to 160

4. “Artillery damage is devastating.”

We have identified that the basic artillery units for each faction (Crescent, Hailstorm, and Howitzer) are too effective, both during the engagement while armies are moving toward each other and while damage is sustained on a stationary force. They are generally seen as “must have” units for a ground army to be effective. Because of this, we are looking into reductions to projectile speeds to make them easier to dodge, and to damage and area effect radii to reduce the overall damage per second to a stationary group of enemies. We are also looking into reductions for the ranges of the Goo Crescent a to counter the benefit of being able to fire from steep terrain types. The mines laid by the Howitzer are also being adjusted to remain for a shorter amount of time to facilitate engagements against a Human ground force.


•Hailstorm damage down from 25 to 20

•Hailstorm range up from 750 to 800

•Hailstorm armor penetration down from 3 to 0

•Hailstorm projectile speed down from 500 to 350

•Hailstorm AoE radius down from 150 to 125

•Guardian range down from 650 to 550


•Crescent damage down from 10 to 6

•Crescent AoE radius down from 200 to 150

•Crescent range down from 1500 to 1000

•Crescent projectile speed up from 150 to 200

•Projectile Endurance Upgrade AoE radius down from 100 to 75

•Projectile Endurance damage down from 5 to 2

•Projectile Endurance range down from 1500 to 1000


•Howitzer damage down from 30 to 23

•Howitzer range up from 800 to 900

•Howitzer armor penetration down from 3 to 0

•Howitzer projectile speed down from 500 to 350

•Howitzer AoE radius down from 150 to 100

•Howitzer mine (default) no longer has stealth

•Howitzer mine duration down from 12 to 3 sec

•Howitzer Proximity Mine Radar Upgrade mine duration down from 18 to 9 sec

5. “It’s difficult to engage against Gladii.”

Gladii are a tad too easy to kite with. Their strength should be their ability to move and fire and their speed makes this a little too effective. Reducing the movement speed should help narrow the gap.

•Gladius speed down from 95 to 90

6.“A lot of general multiplayer balance concerns seem to stem from the current map pool.”

Competitive players want maps that are fair for all sides and ones that may provide a small faction advantage for variety. There are maps that are far too asymmetrical for competitive play and the pace and gameplay differs wildly from map to map. We appreciate that players are experimenting with the Map Editor and would love to hear feedback in regards to more competitive map terrain layout and resource placement.

We continue this discussion with Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat.

-GG from the Dev Team

March 4, 2015, 1:03 p.m.

I love you all @ the Dev team. Sheer geniuses.

March 4, 2015, 1:15 p.m.
Last updated
March 4, 2015, 1:17 p.m.

I like the updates. Think it's headed in the right direction.

I think where some player's concerns come from maps is that they're not symmetrical. I think a few new maps from the devs that are completely symmetrical would appease these players. It would be good to have a healthy balance of asymmetrical maps & symmetrical ones.

I think symmetrical maps are kinda boring to look at from the mini map prospective (this coming from a guy who has made two mirrored maps) but I get it that's what the players want.

March 4, 2015, 1:30 p.m.

i am (was) a goo player. so i talk about only goo.

not bad.

on paper changes to damage and hp seems fair.

-even if i cannot understand how was a good nerf lowering from 10 (ten) to 0 (zero). it s called overkill imho.

-when i read about protean ability to split in combat i was freezing inside. luckly u left it as it is. cool.

-i reiterate, goo early rush is strong only because the maps are small. honestly, talking about maps, map pool is very bad. there are maps who allowed a easy win goo rush, maps that are instant surrender for goo, same for other factions, but they have walls that slow opponent. whatever.

- question; how does it change mother protean building with this hp upgrade? slower protean forming?

- question: how does it work now purger?


-crescent are officially useless unit. it is the only arty unit in game that can have shots destroyed by other units. also, the upgrade is , now, a waste of resources, let's call it, suicide upgrade, because if u do it, u have more useless units in game. i dont get why nerfing crescent was a good idea? i mean, build AA and destroy those shots. if a player lose to a crescent spam, he deserve the loss. and i read a lot on forum about noob players who dont even know that crescent can be countered easily.

  • epics now are almost a "IWIN" button against goo. how do u counter hand and alpha now? mothers helped. now u just see your units oneshotted by ruks long range shots; alpha hmm...same

March 4, 2015, 1:39 p.m.
Last updated
March 4, 2015, 1:45 p.m.

Shukran#2561 posted (#post-19890)

  • question; how does it change mother protean building with this hp upgrade? slower protean forming?

No, growth times remain the same.

  • question: how does it work now purger?

Purger has the same build time.

March 4, 2015, 1:47 p.m.

R.I.P. Crescent. with lower range its design won't stand out anymore.

March 4, 2015, 1:55 p.m.

Trident might be an over nerf. Human is already slow and with the trident nerf its crawling. Imo either increase build time or cost. Also gladii got nerfed so there is no real alternative and i bet scythes will also get nerfed.

March 4, 2015, 1:59 p.m.

I agree with all changes so far, but i have to say that the cost increase to tridents is a bit too much the build time nerf was enough already.

And iam a beta player so just saying that cost increase might force people to just spam revolvers early game and skip tridents all together.

Removing penetration from arty scares me a bit because i know this means tanks should be better against them but who uses Tanks anyways i mean it will still not be because of arty.

I hope these changes can be reiterated but im happy with the overall goal of them.

March 4, 2015, 2:02 p.m.
Last updated
March 4, 2015, 2:06 p.m.

Here I was hoping on some unit speed increase and instead you nerf humans mbt speed. :/

March 4, 2015, 2:27 p.m.
Last updated
March 4, 2015, 2:28 p.m.

predators are as fast as gladii, atleast on the ingame wiki, its strange that only gladii got nerfed


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